(bright upbeat music) - [Matt] Create artwork from memory with Ken Ragsdale.

(bright upbeat music) Chat with Illustrator Marcus Kwame Anderson, (bright upbeat music) and catch a performance from Erie.

It's all ahead on this episode of "AHA".

♪ Gotta tell you ♪ - [Narrator] Funding for "AHA" has been provided by your contribution, and by contributions to the WMHT Venture Fund.

Contributors include the Leo Cox Beach Philanthropic Foundation, Chet and Karen Opalka, Robert and Doris Fischer Malesardi, and the Robison Family Foundation.

- At M&T Bank, we understand that the vitality of our communities is crucial to our continued success.

That's why we take an active role in our community.

M&T Bank is pleased to support WMHT programming that highlights the arts, and we invite you to do the same.

(bright upbeat music) - Hi, I'm Matt Rogowics and this is "AHA".

A house for arts, a place for all things creative.

Today we're heading to Albany, New York, to step inside the fascinating studio of artists, Ken Ragsdale.

(bright upbeat music) (gentle music) - I make two dimensional images that start out as drawings, and then they become sculptures, and then they become photographs, and then they become paintings.

(gentle music) I really wanted to make painted landscapes, I always painted landscapes and that's what I wanted.

And then it became apparent that there were a lot of people making painted painted landscapes, so I thought, "Well, there's gotta be something that I know how to do that nobody else knows how to do.

How can I use that?"

(pensive music) When I was a kid I would do schematic drawings for my dad, who was a hydraulics engineer, and he had a shop and people would call him and he would be on the phone with this long stick with a piece of chalk on it, and in the shop he would be making these sort of hieroglyphics on the floor while he talked on the phone.

And he was figuring out how much power and how much length of hose, and what the pump needed to be, in order to run these projects.

And when he was done, it was my job to look at the chicken scratches and make a schematic drawing that people could understand.

(pensive music) So over the years, this idea of thinking an idea through a schematic started to become even more three-dimensional.

I started to think of everything as living in a box, and how could I take that box and open it up onto a flat sheet.

(pensive music) When I was in grad school I started taking these drawings, these sketches, and building little models and then setting them up and painting them.

And they said, Well, that's still not very interesting."

And they said, "Why don't you photograph them?"

(inspiring music) Ultimately, what I realized is that I could make a painting with light.

It was still a two dimensional image, it was still a landscape, it still was color, but it was just light on paper.

The first one that comes to mind is one that I did in grad school, and it was the first time that I sort of saw the potential, and it's called "Night" and it's a scene of the house that my dad built that we lived in.

It had a lot of blues, dark blues and things.

And I wanted a light in the house but I didn't understand it well enough at the time, so I thought, "Oh, what I'll do is that I'll just cut a hole underneath the table and I'll put a flashlight."

And it was beautiful, it was fantastic, it was like it was exactly the right color.

(laughs) So just to get this little glow in the window.

So that one sort of set really the scene for everything that I did after.

(light dramatic music) The images that I make are all from memory.

I take things that I'm familiar with from my past and I sort of reconfigure them into a new landscape.

(light dramatic music) The memory is really about a moment of anticipation.

I want, when people look at the image to think that something may have just happened or that it was about to happen, but it was in that moment where you weren't sure which direction things were going in.

And I never have people, there's never any figures in any of them because I think figures are too specific.

I think there's something about the specificity of viewer trying to understand what a figure in a landscape is doing, that it takes away from that possibility of things may be happening in this direction or that direction.

(light dramatic music) All of the objects, the players, I guess I would call them, the cars, the houses, the trees, whatever.

A long time ago I made a really stupid rule for myself that each one of those objects had to be made outta one piece of paper, and I couldn't use tape or glue, that it had to be held together just with tabs and slots.

(whimsical music) Part of that came from the idea that everything was, because it was all about my memory, and your memory is always in flux and it's always sort of transferrable and never fixed, so I wanted everything that I made to be able to come apart and lay flat again.

And that I could store it away, I could bring it back, I could reattach it, I could change it, I could do whatever; so it was never fixed.

A car is a perfect opportunity.

Knowing that everything fits in a box, you think, "Okay, if I have to open up that box, what's the best center point for that to functionally operate?"

And in the case of a car it would be the roof, that's easy.

So I will just start, when I draw I'll just start in the middle and I'll start making lots of straight lines.

And the weird thing is, is that I don't really have a plan when I start, I kind of have a plan but it's in the process of drawing all of these straight lines that I can start to feel my way into it, I can start to see dimension, and if this is this wide then it needs to be this wide.

And then I'll start to allow that thing, so the sides will come out, the front, the windshield will attach to a hood, to the grill, and then things might come in underneath of it and it's like, "How do I attach the bottom?"

I have a whole system for wheels, which are then attached by a structure to the bottom of the car.

But almost anything can be built that way.

(bright upbeat music) So I have thousands of these objects.

And so then I can pick and choose, if I need to make a new one I make a new one.

And then I have a digital camera set up, and the camera's on a live feed to a video monitor.

And that way, if I'm out in the scene trying to arrange things, I can look up at the monitor and go, "Oh yeah, it needs to go that way a little bit."

(light dramatic music) The idea of working from memory that really appeals to me is that it's sort of, in a weird way, the only objective truth.

Your memory is sort of so in flux and so incapable of holding onto details, that clearly the details don't matter anymore, it's only what you remember that matters.

The artist William Kentridge, one of my favorite quotes is he says that making art is a way of arriving at knowledge that is not subject to cross-examination.

And so what you're trying to do is to try to build an image, a very layered, complex image that in and of itself is believable, but in its own way, so that people, when they come to it, they go, "Oh, I get that, I understand that," but it's not connected to any other believable reality that they know, so they can't argue it.

(gentle music) - Illustrator Marcus Kwame Anderson brings characters to life in comic books and graphic novels.

Jade Warwick spoke with Marcus to learn more about his creative process, and to see what he is working on now.

- Hey, Marcus, welcome to a "House for Arts" today.

- Hey, good to be here.

- Yeah, I'm super excited to talk to you all things comics and illustrations, which is something that I'm personally passionate about.

So, to begin, I know you're a comic artist, comic illustrator, so what was the moment that comics went into like, "Oh, this is just like a hobby, little fun thing," to like being a full fledged career?

- So for me, I started out as a kid who just loved to draw.

Most kids love to draw but they drop off at a certain point but I just kind of kept drawing, and I had a lot of encouragement along the way which was really positive.

So one of the things that I like to draw was comics, I discovered them from my cousin who introduced me to a bunch of comics, and I was kind of hooked on them as a medium, definitely as a reader.

But then I started thinking I would look in the title page at all the jobs.

There were writers, pencillers, inkers, letterers.

So I'm like, "All right, I could figure out how to do each of those pieces."

And so I would, I'd make comics on my own just for fun.

Then I went away to college and I tried to go into a direction that was more, had more job opportunity so I started doing more conventional illustration and I would get regular jobs, which were less fun, but a friend of mine had this idea for a comic story and it became the independent comic book "Snow Dazed" that I produced with my friend Leo.

And so that was really, it reignited the desire to create comics, and that was around 2012.

- Okay, nice.

- Yeah, so around that time I was like, "Okay, I'm not setting this aside any longer," you know what I mean, 'cause I was like, "I grew up wanting to do this and that was a taste."

And even though I wasn't like making any real money on it, it really provided visibility and a lot of other people saw the work that I was doing and appreciated it, and then it led to other opportunities that were paid.

So in this capitalist society, once you get paid for something it's a little more realistic.

- Yeah, and that light's a little spark too.

You're just like, "Oh, wow.

This is something that actually is sustainable for me."

- Yeah, definitely.

- So I know a lot of your work deals with historic and social themes, which can be really intricate.

So how do you create illustrations and comics that connect with the reader to get these points across?

- Yeah, so when I'm creating work that deals with heavy themes, social themes, history, one of the most important things is the human element 'cause all of these things involve people.

So you present relatable characters and, obviously, in my latest work it was historical fiction, but there was a lot of real people that overlapped.

But the most important thing is that humanity, so as a visual artist my job is to really infuse that humanity in the work, and make sure that it comes through.

And if you do that, that's a huge part in creating something that readers can relate to, 'cause it's that human element, if you can bring that through and be accurate, 'cause accuracy is super important with history and social themes.

- Yeah, and do you think that human connection is like a big piece of your work?

Would you say that's an undergoing or a continuing theme, and is that something that you consider vital?

- Yeah, no, most definitely.

I think that- 'cause I mean, I'll be honest, I do consider myself to be a socially conscious person.

All of the words essentially that a lot of people are trying to make controversial these days, and that comes through in my work.

My belief in the fact that in the dignity of all people, specifically marginalized people and black people in particular.

And so that's all there in my work, just of justice and social justice are infused there as well, as well as a broader human narrative that everybody should be able to relate to.

- Yeah, that's what I think.

I know people are probably tired of hearing this but it's more important than ever, now.

- Absolutely.

Yeah, yeah.

- It's way more vital than ever, so we definitely need stories like that being shared.

So give us a little background of your creative process.

A lot of people read comics but how do you even begin?

You have an idea and then what does that look like?

- Yeah, so for me, so there's a lot of sketching that goes on for projects.

Right now I'm actually in the process of just doing sketches and concept art for an upcoming project, so I'll start with just a lot of reading the script and research, and getting to know whatever material I'm covering.

And then from there, it's really just a matter of just a lot of sketching, making mistakes, figuring things out.

And then eventually you land on a drawing, a character design, a concept design, and you're like, "Oh, that's it."

And I can just feel it,, just after all of those hours, you know what I mean?

And so, yeah, after all that sketching, initially, then you dive into the script and layouts.

So layouts are like really rough page designs and you don't want to be doing detailed pencils on layouts 'cause you want the room to make mistakes and just get 'em done.

The last few books I've done have been- the first one was almost 200 pages.

- Wow.

- And the next one was almost 300 pages, so if you imagine me doing like my initial layouts as really detailed, that would just take forever.

So after layouts you usually share them with the team, your editors, your writers, and make sure everybody's on the same page.

And then, if it's all good, then I jump into pencils and inks.

And I've kind of gotten a process recently where I do my pencils pretty quick and then I jump into the inking process, because I'm pretty confident in my ink work, and then colors, of course.

- I was gonna say, and of course colors.

Now what are these two last- you said 200 pages and 300.

Now, which books were those?

- So "The Black Panther Party", a graphic novel history, which came out in 2021, that was 170 pages.

- Wow.

- And then the "Big Jim and the White Boy", which came out just this past October was 275 pages.

- How many hours do you think you put in?

- I don't even know.

I can't keep track.

- Thousands, probably.

- Yeah, it was very, very- - So it's kind of well known, if you're in the industry or read comic books, or a fan of comic books, that getting into this industry is kind of like notoriously difficult without being drowned out.

So what is some advice you would give to an artist who- or I guess some advice or just steps, important steps that you would give to an artist trying to make it out into the comic industry, and what is maybe like a lesson?

- Yeah, so I would say be observant, 'cause we all consume media of different sorts so I think there's lessons to be learned from the media of film and movies, because they share some language with comics and there's certain aspects of comic storytelling that are unique, but just be observant and pay attention to things.

Obviously, if you want to draw illustrate comics, you definitely want to just practice your craft, really acclimate yourself with how to capture people, emotions, forms, environment, and all of those things.

And a lot of that, it really just comes from hours and hours of repetition, but if you want to do it there's no shortcut around learning your craft.

But then as far as the business side of things, I would say, the most important thing is to have faith in yourself, 'cause it can be bumpy and it is not necessarily a neat, smooth ride into it.

And, also, be aware that you probably will have to have a second job, at least initially, while you try to get a foot in the door.

And from there I think just be just in your dealings with people, be a good person because what I've found is there's a lot of people in this industry, but other entertainment and arts industries where they might be difficult to work with, or they're just challenging to work with.

And people always appreciate if you are somebody who's pleasant to work with and somebody who's got a good attitude, and they will call you back if you do good work and you're just a good person to work with.

- Yeah that's true, 'cause you can do good work but if you're not a fun person to work with you may not get that callback, and they may move to somebody who subjectively gets all subjective but they're like, "Oh, this person's at least happy, good and fun to work with, even if his works a little less on the details side, or something like that."

So I think that's a really good lesson, just being just your best self and just being easy to just work with within the artist world, 'cause I've seen that myself.

So any books coming up that you want people to know, any projects or anything?

- Yeah, so I'm working on quite a few things.

Some that I'll be able to speak about soon.

I do think I'm able to speak about my next graphic novel 'cause I think it was announced.

It is an autobiography of Harriet Tubman, based on a previous prose autobiography, and it should be out I believe in 2026.

So I'm just starting the work for it now.

- That's awesome.

Well, thanks, can't wait to read that one and get it signed.

But thank you for stopping by, Marcus, and telling us about all the things you love within the comic world.

- Yeah, thank you.

Thank you.

- Appreciate you.

- Please welcome Erie.

(drum sticks ticking) (upbeat rock music) ♪ Gotta tell you we've a lot to talk about ♪ ♪ Gotta tell you we've a lot to talk about ♪ ♪ I've been looking to the past ♪ ♪ And those eager eyes that led me to the place I am ♪ ♪ There's no shame in where I've been ♪ ♪ There's no shame in sleeping in ♪ ♪ And I'm okay to feel ♪ ♪ And I'm okay with (indistinct) ♪ (upbeat rock music) ♪ Gotta tell you there's a lot to think about ♪ ♪ I've gotta tell you there's a lot to think about ♪ ♪ Every time I think I'm through ♪ ♪ I'm reminded why I started in the first place ♪ ♪ There's no shame in where I am ♪ ♪ There's no shame in making plans ♪ ♪ And I'm okay with you ♪ ♪ And I'm okay with tears ♪ ♪ Oh we were kings down in the basement ♪ ♪ Everybody's ears were ringing out ♪ ♪ The sun came up and we were headed off to bed ♪ (upbeat rock music) ♪ Thought one day I'd play the garden ♪ ♪ Not be 30 in a hospital ♪ ♪ So I'm not too old for keeping the dream alive ♪ ♪ But I'm much too young to die ♪ (upbeat rock music) ♪ Gotta tell you there a lot to think about ♪ (upbeat rock music) (drumstick ticking) (upbeat rock music) ♪ Trying to find out why everything good has to end ♪ ♪ And every dream turns into a faqir weather friend ♪ ♪ Am I just fireworks ♪ ♪ 'cause I'm starting to burn out ♪ (upbeat rock music) ♪ Trying to find out if all that we know is a lie ♪ ♪ And every mantra is told just to keep us alive ♪ ♪ Tune in sell out forget what you know of the rules ♪ ♪ Chases the whole ride you get off now you're a fool ♪ ♪ am I just fireworks ♪ (upbeat rock music) ♪ Am I just fireworks ♪ ♪ 'Cause I'm starting to burn out ♪ (upbeat rock music) ♪ I'm starting to burn out ♪ (upbeat rock music) ♪ Starting to burn out ♪ (upbeat rock music) ♪ I'm starting to burn out ♪ (upbeat rock music) ♪ Wasted all my youth ♪ (upbeat rock music) ♪ Self inflicted wounds ♪ (upbeat rock music) ♪ Am I fireworks ♪ (upbeat rock music) ♪ More like fireworks ♪ ♪ 'Cause I'm starting to burn out ♪ (upbeat rock music) ♪ I'm starting to burn out ♪ (upbeat rock music) ♪ I'm starting to burn out ♪ (upbeat rock music) ♪ I'm starting to burn out ♪ (upbeat rock music) (singer vocalizing) (gentle music) - Thanks for joining us.

For more arts, visit wmht.org/aha, and be sure to connect with us on social.

I'm Matt Rogowics, thanks for watching.

(bright upbeat music) (bright upbeat music continues) - [Narrator] Funding for "AHA" has been provided by your contribution, and by contributions to the WMHT Venture Fund.

Contributors include the Leo Cox Beach Philanthropic Foundation, Chet and Karen Opalka, Robert and Doris Fischer Malesardi, and the Robison Family Foundation.

- At M&T Bank, we understand that the vitality of our communities is crucial to our continued success.

That's why we take an active role in our community.

M&T Bank is pleased to support WMHT programming, that highlights the arts and we invite you to do the same.