THE LAST YEAR HAS BEEN A TUMULTUOUS PERIOD FOR NEW YORK'S PRISONS PRISON, WITH HIGH-PROFILE KILLINGS BY PRISON GUARDS AND AN ILLEGAL WORK STOPPAGE BY CORRECTIONS OFFICERS ACROSS THE STATE, SO WE WANT TO EXPLORE THE PRISON LANDSCAPE AND CONSIDER WHAT SYSTEMIC CHANGES ARE NEEDED TO PROMOTE A SAFER, HUMANE AND PRODUCTIVE CARCERAL PROGRAM.

ALL THAT, COMING UP NEXT, ON CONNECT NEW YORK.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ WELCOME TO CONNECT-NEW YORK, I'M DAVID LOMBARDO - HOST OF WCNY'S THE CAPITOL PRESSROOM, A DAILY PUBLIC RADIO SHOW, BROADCASTING FROM THE STATE CAPITOL.

ON THIS MONTH'S EPISODE WE'RE EXAMINING NEW YORK'S PRISON SYSTEM, WHICH HAS COME UNDER THE MICROSCOPE FOLLOWING THEDECEMBER MURDER OF ROBERT BROOKS BY PRISON GUARDS IN CENTRAL NEW YORK AND A STRIKE BY CORRECTIONS OFFICERS ACROSS THE SYSTEM EARLIER THIS YEAR.

TO DISCUSS THOSE EVENTS AND WHAT - IF ANY - SYSTEMIC CHANGE IS NEEDED IN NEW YORK'S CORRECTIONS SYSTEM, WE'RE JOINED IN THE STUDIO BY MATT KEOUGH [GET STUDIO BY MATT KEOUGH EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT FOR THE UNION REPRESENTING CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS, RUSSEL FOX, FROM THE EXECUTIVE BOARD OF THE UNION REPRESENTING LIEUTENANTS IN STATE PRISONS, ALEX GAULT, A STATEHOUSE REPORTER WITH THE JOHNSON NEWSPAPER CORPORATION, AND MELANIE BISHOP, A MEMBER OF THE CENTER FOR COMMUNITY ALTERNATIVES.

I WANT TO START BY TALKING ABOUT THE KILLING OF ROBERT BROOKS AT THE MARCY CORRECTIONAL FACILITY.

AN INDEPENDENT BODY TASKED WITH KEEPING AN EYE ON THINGS, THEY HAD A 2022 VISIT TO THE FACILITY AND FOUND THAT 80% OF THE INCARCERATED POPULATION REPORTED WITNESSING OR EXPERIENCING ABUSE BY STAFF.

SO, MATT, GIVEN THAT BACKDROP, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THAT INCIDENT, DOES THAT STRIKE YOU AS AN EVENT WITH BAD APPLES AND DEMENTIA WITH IN THE COURT SYSTEM OR LARGER SYSTEMIC PROBLEM THAT REQUIRES A LARGER SYSTEMIC RESPONSE.

>> I BELIEVE IT INVOLVED THE ACTORS THAT HAVE BEEN CHARGED THROUGH THE JUSTICE SYSTEM.

I KNOW YESTERDAY THEY WERE COURT AND DID NOT TAKE THE PLEA AGREEMENTS THAT WERE OFFERED TO THEM.

SO THEY WILL GO TO TRIAL AND THE JUSTICE SYSTEM WILL SEE THIS THROUGH TO THE END.

>> YOU DON'T FEEL LIKE IT IS REPRESENTATIVE OF A LARGER SNRB.

>> I DO NOT.

>> AND ALEX, IS THAT ATTITUDE KIND OF IN KEEPING WAS WHAT YOU'VE HEARD FROM CORRECTIONS OFFICERS AND I GUESS MAYBE THE STATE MORE BROADLY OR IS THERE A DIFFERENCE OF OPINIONS?

>> IT REALLY DEPENDS ON WHO YOU ASK.

IF YOU TALK TO CORRECTIONS OFFICERS, THE PEOPLE WHO WORK IN THE STATE PRISON SYSTEM, THEY REALLY TELL YOU THAT IT IS A COUPLE OF BAD APPLES.

BUT WHEN YOU TALK TO LAWMAKERS AND POLICYMAKERS, THERE SEEMS TO BE A BELIEF, ESPECIALLY AMONG THE DEMOCRATS WHO CONTROL THINGS IN ALBANY THAT THERE ARE FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEMS WITHIN THE STATE PRISONS THAT REQUIRE SYSTEMIC CHANGE: TRAINING, NEW SOURCES OF C.O.s AND REALLY CHANGING THE WAY THAT CORRECTIONS OFFICERS INTERACT WITH INCARCERATED PEOPLE.

>> RUSSELL, THE HEAD OF THE STATE CORRECTIONS SYSTEM, AFTER SEEING THE VIDEO, SAID IT MADE HIM QUESTION EVERYTHING "HOW DO WE MAKE SURE WE ARE CREATING A CULTURE FOCUSING ON HUMANITY, DIGNITY AND RESPECT."

OBVIOUSLY HE THOUGHT THERE WAS A CULTURE PROBLEM.

HOW DO YOU VIEW THAT INCIDENT?

>> I DON'T VIEW IT AS A CULTURE PROBLEM.

I BELIEVE IT IS, YOU KNOW, A FEW PEOPLE THAT ARE BEING-- THEY'RE GOING TO-- THEY HAD CHARGES FILED ON THEM.

THEY'RE GOING THROUGH THE JUSTICE SYSTEM.

I DO NOT BELIEVE IT IS SYSTEMIC OR STATEWIDE.

>> MELANIE?

>> I THINK I WOULD HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH THAT NARRATIVE.

I THINK THAT D.A.

FITZPATRICK ALSO THOUGHT IT WAS POSSIBLY JUST A FEW BAD APPLES AND THEN WE SAW THE MURDER OF WITHIN A FEW WEEKS AFTER THAT DURING THE CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS STRIKE.

I THINK THAT THE FACT THAT WE CAN LOOK AT DISCIPLINARY RECORDS OR MORE INFORMATION IS COMING OUT AND MORE TRANSPARENCY IS COMING OUT WITHIN THE SYSTEM OF THESE PARTICULAR OFFICERS BEING INVOLVED IN PREVIOUS INCIDENTS OF ABUSE.

I THINK IF WE LOOK AT THE AMOUNT THE STATE PAYS IN DAMAGES TO FAMILY MEMBERS WHO HAVE VOICED CONCERNS ABOUT ASSAULTS AND ABUSE.

IT IS A BROADER SYSTEMIC THING THAT IS HAPPENING WITHIN NEW YORK STATE FACILITIES.

I THIS I THAT WE HAVE ALSO HEARD JUST IN THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS DURING THE STRIKE, ABOUT FORMER CORRECTION OFFICERS OR SPOUSES OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN CORRECTIONAL OFFICES TALKING ABOUT POTENTIAL HAZING SITUATIONS THAT ARE TAKING PLACE WITH NEW PEOPLE THAT ARE COMING INTO THE PROFESSION.

I THINK THERE ARE GOOD CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS AND I DON'T WANT TO SHOUT THEM OUT, ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO STAYED DURING THE STRIKE I THINK THERE ARE ISSUES THERE, THE OMBUDSMAN THERE, A GRIEVANCE POLICY WHERE YOU ARE NOT INVESTIGATING REPORTS OF ABUSE THAT YOUR PEOPLE ARE DOING.

YOU DON'T SEE THAT VERY OFTEN IN SOCIETY WHERE PEOPLE ARE BEING INVESTIGATED BY PEOPLE WHO ARE BEING ACCUSED OF ABUSE.

MY SON MY SON HAD AN INCIDENT IN THE AFACILITY AND THE PEOPLE WHO INVESTIGATED IT WERE ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO WAS ACCUSED OF DOING THE ASSAULT ON HIM.

THE BODY CAMERAS ARE A GREAT START.

I THINK WE WE THEY'D TO ADDRESS BODY CAMERAS AND THERE NEED TO BE CONSEQUENCES FOR THOSE WHO DO NOT FOLLOW THE POLICY AND PROCEDURE.

>> I WANT TO TALK ABOUT SOME OF THAT BUT WERE YOU GOING TO SAY SOMETHING?

>> I WAS GOING TO ADD IN THERE THAT AS FACILITY WORKING IN A FACILITY AS LIEUTENANTS OR SERGEANTS OR OFFICERS,WE DON'T INVESTIGATE OTHER STAFF MEMBERS WITHIN THE FACILITIES.

ANY ALLEGATIONS OF THAT WOULD GO TO THE OFFICE OF SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS AND THEY WOULD INVESTIGATE IT.

>> AND WHAT ABOUT THOUGH, THE ROLE THAT THE UNION CAN PLAY OR UNIONS CAN PLAY IN OVERSEEING WHO IS GOING TO BE REVIEWING, SAY A DISCIPLINARY PROCESS.

IS THAT SOMETHING THAT MAKES SENSE TO YOU GUYS?

>> WE REALLY DON'T HAVE ANY SAY IN THAT.

>> WE HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO SAY IN THAT.

>> YOU DON'T FEEL LIKE THE UNIONS CAN INFLUENCE THE DISCIPLINARY PROCESS IN TERMS OF WEIGHING IN ON WHO IS GOING TO BE SELECTED TO REVIEW FINAL DECISIONS?

>> NO.

>> IF IT GETS TO AN ARBITRATION PROCESS... >> YES.

>> IT'S LIKE SELECTING A JURY ON A TRIAL.

THERE'S HYPOTHETICALLY FIVE ARBITRATORS.

WE MIGHT GET TWO NOS, STATE GETS TWO NOS AND YOU GET TO AN ARBITRATOR THAT HEARS A DISCIPLINARY CASE, WHICH IS A LOT LIKE A TRIAL.

THERE ARE ATTORNEYS PRESENT FROM THE STATE.

THERE ARE ATTORNEYS PRESENT FROM THE UNION AND THE ACCUSED OFFICER SITS THERE AND THERE IS EVIDENCE WEIGHED AGAINST HIM AND AN ARBITRATOR MAKES A DECISION.

>> I WANT TO COME BACK TO WHAT MELANIE MENTIONED ABOUT THE OFFICERS OR SOME OF THE INVOLVES INVOLVED IN THE KILLING OF ROBERT BROOKS AND HOW THERE WERE SOME DISCIPLINARY COMPLAINTS ONGOING AGAINST THEM ALREADY.

WHAT SHOULD BE THE WAY OF HANDLING THOSE COMPLAINTS WHILE SOMEONE IS, YOU KNOW, STILL SO TO SPEAK, A LOT WAS FOCUSED ON BODY WORN CAMERAS, SOME ADDITIONAL SUPPORT FOR THE INDEPENDENT MONITOR I REFERENCED EARLIER.

IN THE ENSUING SIX MONTHS, WHAT CHANGES, IF ANY, HAVE BEEN IMPLEMENTED IN RESPONSE TO THAT KILLING.

>> I THINK THE CHANGES IN RESPONSE TO THE KILLING HAVE ALMOST BEEN SIDELINED BY RESPONSES TO WHAT WE WILL TALK ABOUT LATER.

BUT THE C.O.

STRIKE.

THE PRIES PRISONS ARE IN EMERGENCY MODE WHERE SUBSTANTIVE CHANGES ARE ON THE BACK BURNER AS WE TRY TO GET THINGS RUNNING NORMALLY AGAIN.

I HAVE SEEN SOME INTEREST-- THERE ARE SOME BILLS DEBATED IN ALBANY THIS WEEK THAT WOULD GO FURTHER THAN WHAT THE GOVERNOR PROPOSED.

MONEY TO THE CORRECTIONS ASSOCIATION, MORE MONEY FOR BODY WORN CAMERAS, THINGS LIKE THAT.

BUT ALSO MORE OF A ROLE FOR THE LEGISLATE LEGISLATURE IN OVERSEEING THE STATE PRISONS, TAKING ON AN ADDITIONAL ROLE IN THAT SENSE.

IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN IF THERE IS THE POLITICAL WILL FOR THAT TO HAPPEN THIS YEAR.

BUT I WOULD SAY THAT THINGS ARE REALLY TAKING A BACK SEAT AS THE STATE TRIES TO CORRECT FROM THE PRISON STRIKE.

>> AND "ON THE MONEY" FRONT, I THINK $3 MILLION WAS INCLUDED IN THE STATE BUDGET FOR THE CORRECTIONAL ASSOCIATION BUT RUSSELL ON THE POINT OF THE BAM RAZE, THE ONLY REASON WE KNOW-- CAMERAS, THE ONLY REASON WE KNOW THAT ROBERT BROOKS WAS KILLED WAS BECAUSE OF THE PASSIVE BOD CAMERAS.

DOES IT MAKE SENSE TO DEPLOY CAMERAS MORE WIDELY WHETHER IT'S STATIONARY CAMERAS OR THE USE OF BODY WORN CAMERAS WHEN THEY'RE ON?

>> I HAVE WORKED UNDER CAMERAS ALMOST MY ENTIRE CAREER WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS SO CAMERAS TO ME, I'M OKAY WITH THEM.

THEY DON'T BOTHER ME ONE BIT.

THE ONLY THING I WILL SAY ABOUT THE CAMERAS IS WHEN THEY IMPLEMENTED THE CAMERAS, THEY DID IT VERY QUICKLY.

AND THERE WAS SOME THINGS MISSED.

STAFF NEEDED TO ASSIST IN OPERATING THEM, STUFF LIKE THAT BUT STUFF LIKE THAT IS ALWAYS MISSED.

I HAVE NO ISSUE WITH THE CAMERAS.

THEY PROTECT BOTH STAFF AND INCARCERATED.

>> MELANIE, WHAT ARE YOUR EXPECTATIONS FOR THE BENEFIT OR LIMITATIONS OF EXPANDED USE OF CAMERAS IN PRISONS?

>> I THINK THE BODY WORN CAMERAS HAVE TO BE PRESENT AND I THINK IT DOES PROVIDE PROTECTION TO BOTH THE INCARCERATED AND THE CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS.

WE HEARD A LOT ABOUT STAFF SAFETY THROUGHOUT THE STRIKE AND WE DID HEAR SOME COMPLAINTS FROM CERTAIN CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS DURING THE STRIKE ABOUT BODY WORN CAMERAS, BUT IF TRUE TRANSPARENCY IS WHAT WE ALL WANT, BECAUSE I THINK WE ALL WANT TO KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON INSIDE OUR CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES, ESPECIALLY NOW IN LIGHT OF THE MURDERS.

BUT OVERALL, I DON'T THINK WE CAN SUPPORT OUR CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS WITH THE BEST USE OF TOOLSZ THAT THEY NEED IF WE DON'T KNOW REALLY WHAT IS GOING ON THERE.

SO I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE CONSEQUENCES IF PEOPLE DO NOT FOLLOW THE POLICIES WITH THE BAM RAZE.

THEY NEED TO BE ON AND OPERATING AT ALL TIMES THAT YOU ARE INTERACTING WITH AN INCARCERATED PERSON AND THERE NEEDS TO BE CONSEQUENCES IF THEY'RE NOT IN OPERATION AND THAT HELPS WITH TRUST BECAUSE THERE IS A TRUST ISSUE BETWEEN THE COMMUNITY AND INCARCERATED LOVED ONES AND THOSE OPERATING THE FACILITIES BECAUSE THESE CASES HAVE BROUGHT TO LIGHT CHARGES OF FALSIFICATION OF DOCUMENTS AND WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, DATA AND INCREASING ASSAULTS AND STUFF, WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO TRUST THE DATA IF WE ARE HEARING OFFICERS ARE FALSIFYING DATA, THE BODY WORN CAMERAS WOULD HELP TO SUPPORT THE DOCUMENTATION THAT WE ARE ALL HEARING ABOUT.

>> DOES THAT MAKE SENSE TO YOU?

>> IT DOES TO A CERTAIN ASPECT.

I BELIEVE THAT THE DEPARTMENT HAS GIVEN DIRECTION THAT IF YOU ARE IN DIRECT CONTACT WITH AN INCARCERATED INDIVIDUAL, YOUR BODY WORN CAMERA IS TO BE ON.

I KNOW THAT WE HAD SOME ISSUES FROM THE MEMBERSHIP WHEN IT FIRST CAME OUT BECAUSE IT WAS TO REMAIN ON AT ALL TIMES AND LO AND BEHOLD WE HAVE BODY WORN CAMERA FOOTAGE OF CORRECTION OFFICERS USING THE RESTROOM, CORRECTION OFFICERS CHANGING THEIR CLOTHES, BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T WANT TO BE IN VIOLATION AND THE DEPARTMENT HAS SINCE ROLLED BACK SOME OF THAT AND GIVEN INSTRUCTION TO WHAT YOU CAN DO.

ONE OF OUR ISSUES ON MY UNION'S LEVEL WAS, IF YOU ARE HAVING A PROTECTED CONVERSATION AS A UNION OFFICIAL WITH AN OFFICER, YOU SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO STEP INTO AN OFFICE AND BE ABLE TO TURN THAT STUFF OFF.

AND WE HAVE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH THE DEPARTMENT AND THEY ALLOW US TO DO THAT.

BUT I DO THINK THAT BODY WORN CAMERAS IS HELPFUL AROUND THE INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS BECAUSE WE CAN USE THE BODY WORN CAMERAS TO DOCUMENT STUFF THAT THE INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS DO NOT BEHAVE CORRECTLY.

AND AND THAT'S WHAT WE USE THEM FOR, FOR EVERYBODY'S PROTECTION.

>> STICKING WITH THE IDEA OF TRANSPARENCY, THE CORRECTIONAL ASSOCIATION AS FAR AS I'M AWARE HAS TO GIVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF NOTICE IF SOMEONE WANTS TO VISIT A PRISON.

DO YOU THINK IT MAKES SENSE TO HAVE THE 72-HOUR WARNING OR IS IT SOMETHING THAT IF WE WANT TO HAVE A BETTER PICTURE WHAT HAVE IS GOING ON IN PRISONS, MAYBE IT SHOULD BE NO WARNING AT ALL OR A SHORTER WINDOW.

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT?

>> LEGISLATURES DON'T HAVE TO GIVE ANY WARNING.

ASSEMBLYMAN AND SENATORS CAN WALK UP AND WALK INTO THE FRONT DOOR OF A CORRECTIONAL FACILITY AND REQUEST ENTRY AND THEY CANNOT BE DENIED.

>> CORRECT, BUT WHAT ABOUT THE CORRECTIONAL ASSOCIATION?

>> I BELIEVE THEY SHOULD HAVE TO GIVE SOME TYPE OF PRE--- WHEN THEY ARE GOING TO BE THERE BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO BE CLEARED.

>> AND WHAT SORT OF TIMELINE MAKES SENSE TO MAKE THE LOGISTICS WORK.

>> THAT WOULD BE UP TO THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS BUT 24 HOURS IS CERTAINLY, I COULD THINK THAT, HEY, TOMORROW WE ARE GOING TO BE THERE FOR A TOUR.

IF THE FACILITY HAS THE PROPER STAFFING TO ALLOW THEM TO HAVE STAFF PRESENT TO ESCORT THEM AROUND THE FACILITY, BUT IF THEY DON'T, THEN WE CERTAINLY CAN'T HAVE CIVILIAN STAFF WANDERING AROUND A FACILITY UNESCORTED.

THAT'S A SAFETY CONCERN.

>> DOES THAT MAKE SENSE TO YOU AS WELL?

>> IT DOES.

AND IT MAKES SENSE THAT IT WOULD BE AT LEAST 24 HOURS, I WOULD AGREE WITH AT LEAST 24 HOURS BECAUSE THEY THEY SHOW UP TO FACILITIES, THEY REQUEST TO MEET WITH UNION REPRESENTATION, WHETHER IT'S NYSCOBA PATH, THEY ALSO REQUEST TO MEET WITH US.

SO IF THEY'RE AT A FACILITY THAT DOESN'T HAVE A UNION REP, THAT 24 HOURS GIVES US ENOUGH TIME TO GET TO THAT FACILITY.

>> SO STICKING WITH THE CORRECTION ASSOCIATION, THEY PUT OUT A SERIES OF REFORMS THEY THOUGHT MADE SENSE FOR THE PRISON POPULATION AS WELL AS THE PEOPLE WORKING IN THE PRISONS TO PROMOTE SAFETY AND WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT CAMERAS.

WE'VE TALKED ABOUT TRANSPARENCY.

IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU WANT TO SEE IN TERMS OF CULTURE CHANGES THAT YOU THINK MIGHT BE NECESSARY IF THIS IS THE CASE WHERE IT'S NOT JUST A SERIES OF, YOU KNOW, RANDOM EVENTS?

>> YEAH, I MEAN I THINK THAT WE NEED TO ADDRESS THE FACT THAT WE NEED TO HAVE PROGRAMMING OPERATING IN OUR FACILITIES AND I KNOW, AS ALEX SAID, YOU KNOW, WE ARE GOING HAVE TO ADDRESS SOME OF THAT HAVING TO DO WITH THE STRIKE AND EVERYTHING, BUT WE HAVE A CONTRABAND ISSUE IN OUR FACILITIES.

I DON'T THINK ANYBODY WOULD DISAGREE WITH THAT.

I THINK THAT WE WOULD DISAGREE WITH HOW TO ADDRESS THAT ISSUE.

I THINK THE WAR ON DRUGS IN THE COMMUNITIES HAS NOT BEEN SUCCESSFUL AND THE WAR ON DRUGS WITHIN THE FACILITIES ARE NOT SUCCESSFUL.

I THINK WE NEED TO ADDRESS SUBSTANCE USE WITH SUBSTANCE USE TREATMENT.

THEY SHOULD HAVE ACCESS THE MOMENT THEY ENTER A FACILITY TO HAVE SUINGS TREATMENT AND ACCESS TO THE PROGRAMS.

I THINK THAT WE NEED TO IMPLEMENT POLICIES AND PROGRAMS AND LAWS, LEGISLATION, LIKE THE EARNED TIME ACT, WHICH WOULD ALLOW PEOPLE WHO ENTER THE FACILITY TO BEGIN WORKING ON THEIR REHABILITATION ON THEIR WAY TO EARN THEIR WAY HOME SOONER TO THEIR FAMILIES AND TO THEIR COMMUNITIES.

I DON'T THINK LONG SENTENCES MAKE US SAFER.

I THINK REHABILITATION AND REFORM MAKES US SAFER.

AND SO I THINK THAT HAVING THAT ACCESS TO THOSE PROGRAMS, PEOPLE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO ENTER A FACILITY AND WAIT FIVE, SIX, SEVEN, EIGHT YEARS TO GET INTO DRUG TREATMENT PROGRAMS AND THAT WHAT IS IS UNFORTUNATELY HAPPENING THE IN OUR COMMUNITIES, TOO.

PEOPLE ARE WAITING, WHEN THEY'RE READY FOR DRUG AND ALCOHOL ASSISTANCE, THEY CAN'T GET INTO THE PROGRAMS AND THE SAME THING HAPPENS WHEN THEY ENTER OUR FACILITIES.

IT'S NOT JUST FOCUSED ON DOCCS.

IT'S AROUND THE BOARD WE NEED TO TAKE THESE THINGS SERIOUSLY AND PUNISHMENT IS NOT GOING TO SOLVE OUR CONTRABAND PROBLEM WE NEED REAL PROGRAMMING AVAILABLE.

AND THE EARNED TIME ACT COULD INCENTIVIZE THE PROGRAMS TO UTILIZE POSITIVELY AND ALLOW PEOPLE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE PROGRAMS.

IT GIVES THEM HOPE.

CURRENTLY IN THE FACILITIES SINCE THE WILD CAT STRIKE, NOTHING IS OPERATING AND PEOPLE ARE SITTING CONSTANTLY IN THEIR CELLS.

THERE IS VERY LITTLE STUFF THAT IS BEING OPERATED IN WESTERN NEW YORK, NORTHERN NEW YORK FACILITIES.

ON I HAVE AN INCARCERATED LOVED ONE WITH ONE HOUR A DAY REC.

NO MOVEMENT RIGHT NOW.

IT'S BASICALLY LIKE A LOCK DOWN.

THEY WERE SERVED UP TO THEIR CELLS.

THEY HAVE SHOWERS IN THEIR CELLS SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO LEAVE FOR THOSE.

SO IT IS EVERYTHING IS SHUT DOWN THERE IS NOTHING THAT IS BEING OFFERED FOR OUR INCARCERATED LOVED ONES TO DO ANYTHING POSITIVE OR REHABILITATIVE CURRENTLY.

>> WELL, SINCE YOU BROUGHT UP PROGRAMMING, I WANT TO PIVOT TO A STORY THAT HAS GOTTEN INCREASED ATTENTION IN NEW YORK IN RECENT YEARS SINCE THE STATE.

>> I AM A FORMERLY INCARCERATED PERSON WHO HAD THE PRIVILEGE TO ATTEND A COLLEGE IN PRISON PROGRAM WHILE INCARCERATED.

I WENT TO PRISON AT THE AGE OF 21.

MY BROTHER WAS 20.

WE WERE IN THE SAME PRISON AND WAITED 12 YEARS BEFORE WE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO APPLY TO A COLLEGE PROGRAM THROUGH SUNY CAYUGA COMMUNITY COLLEGE AND CORNELL'S PRISON EDUCATION PROGRAM.

AND SO ONCE WE WERE ACCEPTED INTO THE PROGRAM, IT WAS LIKE OUR DREAMS WERE CLOSE TO BEING REALIZED.

>> THE ACADEMIC RIGOR THAT WE PROVIDE IN THE COLLEGE PRISON PROGRAM IS THE SAME THAT WOULD YOU GET IN ANY SUNY INSTITUTION.

THAT IS ACROSS THE STATE.

THERE ARE COURSES ACROSS THAT ARE INCUMBENT UPON US BECAUSE OF THE KINDS OF RESTRICTIONS THAT ARE JUST AVAILABLE FROM BEING IN THE FACILITIES.

BUT THE MATERIALS WE USE, THE ACADEMIC FREEDOM WE HAVE, THE KIND OF STANDARDS THAT WE HOLD OUR STUDENTS TO ARE THE SAME.

>> THE BAR PRISON INITIATIVE IS A PROGRAM THAT BARD COLLEGE WHERE WE OFFER FULL BREADTH OF LIBERAL ARTS EDUCATION IN PRISONS ACROSS NEW YORK STATE AND ARE ADVOCATES FOR THE RESTORATION OF FULL EDUCATION, COLLEGE EDUCATION IN PRISONS ACROSS NEW YORK A.

>> TO THE DEGREE THAT THESE ARE STUDENTS THAT ARE ENTITLED TO TUITION ASSISTANCE THAT THEY WOULD OTHERWISE RECEIVE IF THEY WERE NOT INCARCERATED.

>> MY NAME IS HAEKWON GRIFFIN AND THE PROGRAM THAT I COMPLETED WAS HUDSON LINK OF HIGHER EDUCATION.

I GRADUATE SATURDAY.

THE PROGRAM WAS A SAFE HAVEN.

IT WAS AWAY FROM ALL THE DRAMA THAT CAME WITH PRISON.

IT WAS JUST A GETAWAY AND ONCE I STARTED THE PROGRAM, I REALIZED THAT ONE DOOR OPENED UP ANOTHER DOOR AND I STUCK WITH IT.

>> NEARLY A THOUSAND ALUMNI ON ANY GIVEN DAY.

WE ENROLL 450 STUDENTS IN PROGRAMS THAT CULMINATE IN ASSOCIATE, BACHELOR'S OR MASTERS DEGREES AND OUR STUDENTS, WOMEN AND MEN, REPRESENT THE FULL BREADTH OF THE INCARCERATED POPULATION HERE IN NEW YORK.

PEOPLE SERVING LONG SENTENCES AND SHORT SENTENCES.

THERE ARE STUDENTS WHO ARE INTERESTED IN, AS I SAID, A WIDE VARIETY OF INTELLECTUAL WORK AND GO ON TO MAKE EXTRAORDINARY CONTRIBUTIONS IN THEIR COMMUNITIES AFTER RELEASE.

>> WHY AM I HERE AND WHY I DO WHAT I DO IS BECAUSE I FEEL IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT MY OPPORTUNITIES AND RESOURCES THAT SUPPORT THAT I HAVE, IT'S NOT A SINGULAR EXPERIENCE, BUT IS SOMETHING THAT EVERY SUNY STUDENT WHO IS INCARCERATED HAS THE OPPORTUNITY TO RECEIVE WHEN THEY TRANSITION FROM COLLEGE AND PRISON TO COLLEGE IN THE COMMUNITY.

>> THE DOORS THAT OPEN FOR ME SO FAR IS, YOU KNOW,I GOT AN ASSOCIATE'S DEGREE.

I NEVER THOUGHT WOULD I HAVE THAT BECAUSE I DROPPED OUT OF THE COLLEGE BEFORE.

AND RIGHT NOW I'M CURRENTLY GOING TO ALBANY RIGHT HERE AND IT'S LIKE A CAREER PATH FOR ME NOW.

SO A LOT OF CLASSES I TOOK WERE HUMAN SERVICESES AND THAT'S LIKE THE FIELD I'M INTO NOW AND THE WORK I'M DOING NOW.

>> I WANT TO ENSURE, WE WANT TO ENSURE THAT EVERY PERSON, EVERY NEW YORKER WHO IS INCARCERATED HAS THAT OPPORTUNITY AND KNOWS THAT SUNY HAS THEIR BACK, SUNY IS FULLY SUPPORTING THEM.

AND THAT ACADEMIA HAS A PLACE FOR YOU AND WE WANT TO CONNECT COLLEGE AND CAREER.

>> HIGHER EDUCATION, ANY EDUCATION IS A FUNDAMENTAL HUMAN RIGHT.

AND TO WITH HOLD THAT RIGHT IS, IN ITSELF, A CRIME.

SO WE-- THAT IS HOW I APPROACHED THIS WORK WHEN IT CAME TO US AS AN INSTITUTION.

I EMBRACED IT WITH THE SOCIAL JUSTICE PIECE OF ME THAT IS OUT THERE TEACHING EVERY DAY ANYWAY.

>> COLLEGE TRANSFORMS THE EXPERIENCE OF PRISON LIKE NOTHING ELSE.

>> I WAS THE FIRST PERSON TO COME HOME FROM PRISON THAT WAS IN THE HIGHER EDUCATION PROGRAM THAT ACTUALLY FINISHED AND GRADUATED.

THEY SAID I MADE HISTORY; TO BE RELEASED AND TO CONTINUE MY EDUCATION, ACTUALLY GRADUATE ON THE STREETS.

SO FIRST PERSON TO DO THAT.

PUT ME IN THE RECORD BOOKS.

>> SO I WANT TO TURN NOW TO THE WORK STOPPAGE EARLIER THIS YEAR AND ALEX, BASED ON YOUR REPORTING, TALKING WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE ACTUALLY INVOLVED IN THE STRIKE,WHAT DID YOU HEAR AS THE REASON FOR THE STRIKE?

AND WHAT WAS THE SCOPE OF THIS?

BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T REALLY HAVE THE ABILITY TO WRAP THEIR HEADS AROUND.

>> IT WAS-- MY ESTIMATION, AND NUMBERS ARE NOT CLEAR BECAUSE IT WASN'T A SANCTIONED STRIKE.

NYSCOBA WAS NOT OPERATING IT.

8,000 OF THE ROUGHLY 13,000 SECURITY STAFF THAT WE HAVE AND THAT'S C.O.s AND SERGEANTS WHO ARE BOTH REPRESENTED BY NYSCOBA.

AND REALLY THE FOUNDATIONAL PROBLEMS I WAS HEARING WERE THAT THESE C.O.s AND THESE SERGEANTS FELT THAT THEIR JOB WASN'T WHAT THEY HAD NECESSARILY SIGNED UP FOR.

THROUGH A SERIES OF CHANGES THAT THE STATE HAS MADE TO HOW PRISONS OPERATE, PRIMARILY WITH HALT, WHICH REALLY WIDELY EXPANDED REHABILITATIVE PROGRAMMING,THESE C.O.s FELT THEIR JOBS WERE NOT AS SAFE AS THEY USED TO BE.

THEY'RE DOING MORE MENTAL HEALTH CARE WORK, DOING MORE PROGRAMMING WORK, THEY'RE BEING MORE DIRECTLY INTERACTING WITH THESE INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS THAN HISTORICALLY THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN.

THERE WERE ALSO CONCERNS OVER PAY.

THERE WERE CONCERNS OVER THE CONTINUED CLOSURE OF FACILITIES AND THE LONG DISTANCES THAT SOME OFFICERS HAVE TO DRIVE TO GET TO WORK AND THERE ARE CONTINUED PROBLEMS WITH THE AMOUNT OF OVERTIME THAT DOCCS REQUIRES OF ITS STAFF.

PEOPLE WERE WORKING 24-HOUR SHIFTS, WHICH THEY CONSIDERED TO BE UNACCESSIBLE.

NOW THEY'RE DOWN TO 12-HOUR SHIFTS WHICH I HEAR ARE NOT ALL THAT BETTER.

>> STILL A LONG DAY.

>> EXACTLY.

IT'S A REALLY FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM HOW THE JOB HAS CHANGED OVER THE LAST 10 TO 15 YEARS I WOULD SAY.

>> ONE OF THE CONCERNS THAT WAS RAISED WAS THE IDEA OF THE POPULATION OF PRISONERS REALLY OUTSTRIPPING THE CAPACITY OF THE PRISON GUARDS, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE RATIO OF GUARDS AND STAFF TO THE INMATE POPULATION, THE CHANGE IS ACTUALLY MOVED IN THE FAVOR OF A BETTER RATIO SINCE 1999.

SO IS THAT NUMBER JUST MISLEADING?

IS THERE SOMETHING ABOUT THE WAY THAT STAFF IS DEPLOYED THAT IS PROBLEMATIC.

DO WE HAVE A RATIO ISSUE OR A DEPLOYMENT OF RESOURCES PROBLEM?

>> I WOULD LIKE TO COMMENT ON SOMETHING THAT ALEX-- >> SURE.

>> I BELIEVE THAT DURING THE STRIKE, I BELIEVE THEIR NUMBERS ARE GREATLY SKEWED ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE THAT PARTICIPATED BECAUSE IN THE NUMBERS THAT THE STATE OF NEW YORK PRODUCED FROM THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE, THAT,000-- THAT 8,000 NUMBER.

THEY INCLUDED FOLKS THAT JUST HAD A CHILD AND THEY INCLUDED THEM IN THE STRIKE WHERE IT'S THE PAID PARENTAL LEAVE ALLOWS THEM TO HAVE 12 WEEKS OFF BUT THEY'RE BEING ORDERED BACK TO WORK.

THEY INCLUDED WORKMANS COMPENSATION FOLKS INTO THAT NUMBER THAT WERE OUT PRIOR TO THE STRIKE, BUT WERE ROLLED INTO THE STRIKE NUMBER AND WERE ORDERED BACK TO WORK.

THE PERSONAL SICK FOR FOLKS-- I UNDERSTAND THAT WERE PEEP THAT BANGED IN-- MEANING CALLED IN SICK-- DURING THE WILD CAT STRIKE.

I UNDERSTAND THAT.

THAT COULD PLAY INTO QUESTION.

BUT THERE WERE PEOPLE THAT WERE -- THERE WERE PEOPLE OUT ON MILITARY LEAVE THAT GOT ROLLED INTO, SO THEY DIDN'T-- THEY THREW A BLANKET OVER A SITUATION INSTEAD OF DEALING WITH THE FOLKS THAT THEY SHOULD BE DEALING WITH.

THEY ROLLED IN TOO MANY PEOPLE.

SO I THINK THE 8,000 NUMBER IS GREATLY INFLATED.

WE ARE CURRENTLY WORKING THROUGH THAT PROCESS.

WE HAVE RECEIVED IN EXCESS OF 3,000 CONTRACTUAL GRIEVANCES THAT WE ARE NOW PUSHING THROUGH TO STEP 2.

AND THEY'RE NOW STARTING TO HEAR THE STEP 2 AND SOME OF THE OFFICERS ARE RECEIVING OFFERS TO RETURN TO WORK.

I DON'T REALLY-- BUT THERE ARE-- WE ARE TAKING STEPS TO MOVE THE OFFICERS THAT WERE WRONGBLY TERMINATED ARE GOING TO HAVE THE OPTIONS TO RETURN TO WORK.

>> SINCE YOU BROUGHT THAT UP, DO YOU FEEL LIKE BECAUSE OF THE SCOPE OF THE ISSUE YOU JUST RAISED THIS CAN FOLLOW THE TRADITIONAL PROCESS OF GOING THROUGH THESE CASES ONE BY ONE OR WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE THE GOVERNOR AND MAYBE THE LEGISLATURE TAKE SOME BROADER ACTION AND OFFER SOME SORT OF CLEMENCY MAY NOT BE RIGHT WORD BUT A LARGER REPRIEVE?

>> GOVERNOR HOCHUL MADE IT VERY CLEAR THAT SHE WAS NOT GOING TO DO THAT.

>> SHE FLIPS AROUND ON THINGS SOMETIMES.

>> WE ARE WORKING THROUGH THE CONTRACTUAL GRIEVANCE PROCESS RIGHT NOW.

THAT'S THE ONLY AVENUE WE HAVE TO PURSUE BUT WE ARE WORKING THROUGH THAT PROCESS.

AND I WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS ONE THING THAT MISS BISHOP, THE CONTRABAND.

I 100% AGREE WITH HER.

DURING THE STRIKE THERE WAS NO CONTRABAND FOUND BECAUSE THERE WERE NO VISITS COMING INTO THE CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES DURING THE STRIKE.

MAIL IS NOW PHOTO COPIED BEFORE IT'S GIVEN TO THE INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS AND SINCE COMING OUT OF THE STRIKE, WE HAVE STARTED A PILOT PROGRAM WITH, DON'T QUOTE ME, I BELIEVE IT'S EIGHT FACILITIES THAT HAVE RECEIVED LEGAL MAIL SCANNERS.

I SAT THROUGH THE PRESENTATION AT DOCCS HEADQUARTERS BY A COMPANY CALLED I BELIEVE IT IS RAY SECURE THAT HAS PROVIDED AND YOU CAN SCREEN UP TO 150 PIECES OF MAIL AN HOUR FOR ANY INDISCREPANCIES THAT ARE COMING, SATURATED LEGAL MAIL, SATURATED NARCOTICS OR K-2 OR FENTANYL, ANY FOREIGN SUBSTANCE DURING THE PRESENTATION, THEY SHOWED US A PIECE OF PAPER THAT HAD COFFEE SPILLED ON IT AND THEN SCANNED IT AND THE SCANNER DETERMINED THAT IT WAS NOT JUST PAPER.

IT DOESN'T DETERMINE THAT IT'S COFFEE.

IT JUST DETERMINES THAT THERE IS SOMETHING THERE THAT IS NOT JUST PAPER.

>> I WANT TO COME BACK TO THE ISSUE OF THE RATIOS THOUGH AND I'M CURIOUS.

DO YOU THINK IT IS MISLEADING, HOW DO WE THINK ABOUT THE POPULATION NUMBERS THE NUMBER OF STAFF TO INCARCERATED PEOPLE IS BASICALLY SHIFTED IN FAVOR OF THE STAFF SINCE 1999.

>> I WON'T DISPUTE THAT FACT THE NUMBER HAS LESSENED THE RATIO IS 35 TO 1 OR 50 TO 1 AND IN THE 90s IT WAS 65 TO 70 TO 1.

>> AND THE STAFF IS 2.4 TO 1.

>> PRISON CLOSURES HAVE NOT HELPED STAFFING.

>> AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT WITH THE RATIO, TO ADD ON TO THAT, WE TALK ABOUT THE RATIO BEING BETTER, AND THAT MIGHT BE ACCURATE, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE ADDITIONAL PROGRAMMING, THE ADDITIONAL SERVICES THAT DOCCS, THAT WE HAVE OFFERED NOW WITHIN DOCCS, ANY TIME A NEW PROGRAM GETS ROLLED OUT, A NEW POLICY OR EVEN HALT, THEY TELL TO US DO IT BUT THEY NEVER GIVE US THE ITEM NUMBERS TO ACTUALLY DO IT.

SO WE DON'T GET-- >> DO MORE WITH LESS.

>> WE DON'T GET THE ADDITIONAL STAFFING.

NOW YOU ARE RUNNING THE PROGRAM, LIKE WITH THE COLLEGE COURSES, THE COLLEGE COURSES MOST FACILITIES ARE RUN IN THE EVENING BECAUSE THE PROFESSORS ARE IN THE COLLEGES DURING THE DAY.

NOW THAT'S ADDITIONAL STAFF IN THE EVENING.

THAT'S ADDITIONAL STAFF THAT WE DON'T HAVE.

IT'S ALSO ADDITIONAL STAFF THAT THEY'RE NOT GIVING US ITEMS FOR.

SO NOW IT'S ANOTHER MANDATING AND IT'S JUST A PROCESS THAT JUST CONSTANTLY JUST GOES OVER AND OVER AND OVER.

WE HAD ADD MORE PROGRAMS BUT NO STAFF SO NOW WE ARE MANDATING AGAIN.

THEN YOU DON'T WANT TO MANDATE BUT YOU CAN'T CANCEL PROGRAMS.

IT'S A CONSTANT CYCLE.

>> IF I MAY, THIS GETS INTO THE REASON THAT THE STRIKE HAPPENED.

THESE OFFICERS FEEL THAT THEIR JOB IS FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT THAN IT WAS 10, 15 YEARS AGO WHAT THEY WERE PROMISED OR ORIGINALLY TRAINED FOR.

LOOKING AT KIND OF THE WHOLESALE PICTURE OF PRISONS, WHAT WE HAVE SEEN IS THEY HAVE BECOME PLACES FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT FROM THE 90s.

WE ARE OFFERING MORE EDUCATION, MORE MENTAL HEALTH PROGRAMMING.

MORE MENTALLY ILL PEOPLE ARE ENDING UP IN PRISONS THNY WERE THE 90s BECAUSE OF THE CLOSURE OF MENTAL HEALTH CARE INSTITUTIONS.

PRIES PRISONS ARE ASKED TO DO A LOT MORE WITH-- THERE ARE STILL LESS OFFICERS.

THERE WAS A SIGNIFICANT DROP, LIKE 21,000 IN THE 90s AND NOW WE ARE DOWN TO 10,000 OR SO AFTER THE STRIKE ENDED.

>> POPULATION IN PRISONS HAS GONE FROM 72,000 TO 33,000.

>> IT'S DROPPED SIGNIFICANTLY BUT WHAT I HEAR IS THAT THE NEED OF EACH INDIVIDUAL INCARCERATED INDIVIDUAL IS A LOT MORE HEIGHTENED NOW.

INCARCERATED PEOPLE ARE BEING GIVEN MORE PROGRAMMING, MORE EDUCATION MORE OPPORTUNITIES TO GET OUT OF THEIR CELLS PER DAY AND THAT PUTS MORE DEMAND ON THE C.O.s.

>> I JUST WANT TO RESPOND TO A COUPLE OF THINGS.

SO JUST IN RESPONSE TO THE CONTRABAND ISSUE DURING THE STRIKE.

I THINK THERE WASN'T A LOT OF CONTRABAND FOUND BECAUSE THERE WERE NO CELL SEARCHES GOING ON.

THAT'S THE REALITY.

THERE WAS NOT A LOT OF CONTRABAND FOUND BECAUSE THERE WAS NO MOVEMENT I WANT TO BE CLEAR THERE WAS STILL CONTRABAND STILL IN THE FACILITIES.

THERE WAS STILL CONTRABAND IN THE FACILITIES DURING COVID WHEN THERE WERE NO VISITS.

I AM A STRONG SUPPORTER OF BODY SCANNERS FOR VISITORS AS THEY COME IN.

I KNOW THAT WHEN I GO TO VISIT MY LOVED ONE, I SOMETIMES GO THROUGH A DOG, I GO THROUGH A METAL DETECTOR.

I GO THROUGH THE BODY SCANNER.

I'M FINE WITH ALL OF THAT.

I THINK WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THAT RECENT NEWS REPORTS HAVE SHOWN THAT SOMETIMES STAFF AND CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS ALSO BRING CONTRABAND INTO THE FACILITY AND WE NEED TO HAVE A POLICY THAT ALLOWS THEM TO BE SCANNED AS WELL.

OR GO THROUGH THE DOGS.

I DON'T KNOW.

THERE MIGHT BE ONE BUT I'M SAYING THOSE THINGS NEED TO BE FAIR AND BALANCED BECAUSE WHILE I KNOW THAT THERE ARE SOME VISITEDDORS THAT I'M SURE BRING IN CONTRABAND AND LOVED ONES THAT BRING IN LOVED-- CONTRABAND, THERE ARE A LOT OF US WHO DON'T AND WE ARE FINE WITH THE POLICIES AND WE ARE AWARE IT HAS BEEN EXISTING THROUGH COVID, THROUGH THE WILD CAT STRIKES AND WE ALSO HAVE TO BE CLEAR THAT SOMETIMES CONTRABAND DATA CAN BE MISLEADING AS WELL BECAUSE SOMETIMES IT IS DRUGS AND WEAPONS AND SOMETIMES IT, YOU HAVE A COUPLE EXTRA BLANKETS OR YOU HAVE EXTRA PROPERTY THAT YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE.

SO I JUST THINK MOST PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE THAT.

I DIDN'T KNOW THAT, THAT YOU COULD GET CONTRABAND TICKET FOR HAVING TOO MANY SHIRTS OR TOO MANY BLANKETS OR WHATEVER.

SO THOSE THINGS DO EXIST.

AS FAR AS PROGRAMS GO, I THINK THAT WHILE, YES, WE HAVE REDUCED OFFICERS AND WE HAVE HIGHER NEEDS, INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS, I THINK WE ARE HOUSING PEOPLE LONGER THAN WE NEED TO.

THERE ARE PEOPLE LIKE TAMMY ELDRIDGE WHO WAS JUST BROUGHT BY THE CHIEF JUSTICE OF NEW YORK STATE AND THE COMMISSIONER TO THE SECOND LOOK HEARING ABOUT THE SECOND LOOK ACT WHERE HOUSING PEOPLE WHO HAVE MASTERS DEGREES WHO ARE CREDIBLE MESSENGERS WHO COULD BE RETURNED TO THEIR COMMUNES SOONER THROUGH NEW LEGISLATION LIKE THE SECOND LOOK ACT, LIKE THE EARNED TIME ACTED.

SO WE COULD REMOVE SOME OF THE POPULATION THAT IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE THERE ANYMORE.

THAT WE ARE WAREHOUSING TO GET A SPECIFIC NUMBER AND THESE NUMBERS ARE ARBITRARY.

YOU CAN BE ARRESTED FOR A ROBBERY IN ONE COUNTY AND GET 14 YEARS AND YOU CAN GET ARRESTED IN ANOTHER COUNTY AND GET FOUR TO FIVE.

SO THE NUMBERS ARE NOT WHAT NEEDS TO MAKE US SAFE IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

IT'S, YOU KNOW, THE INDIVIDUAL SITTING IN FRONT OF YOU, HAVE THEY CHANGED?

HAVE THEY TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF PROGRAMMING?

ARE THEY INVESTED IN THEIR FUTURE?

I KNOW THAT UNIONS SUPPORT THE RETURN OF INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS BECAUSE THEY'RE DESPERATE FOR EMPLOYEES.

SO WHILE SOMETIMES I THINK THAT WE HAVE-- WE HEAR A LOT ABOUT SHORT STAFFING, WE ARE ALSO OVER POPULATION IN OUR FACILITIES.

WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT COULD RETURN TO THEIR COMMUNITIES AND PROVIDE COMMUNITIES WITH RESOURCES AND TAXPAYER DOLLARS IN THERE AS WELL.

>> RUSSELL, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT ARGUMENT, IN ADDITION TO TRYING TO INCREASE THE STAFFING POPULATION, THERE SHOULD BE WAYS TO EXPLORE ARE REDUCING THE PRISON POPULATION BY CREATING NEW PATHWAYS TO EXITING OR MAYBE EXPANDING THE CAPACITY OF THE PAROLE BOARD.

>> HAVE I NO ISSUES WHATSOEVER WITH AN INCARCERATED INDIVIDUAL THAT DOES THE RIGHT THING GETTING OUT EARLY.

I HAVE NO ISSUE WITH THAT WHATSOEVER.

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT-- >> I WILL JUST SAY TO ADD TO THE PROGRAMMING, IF IT EVER GOES, HIGHER EDUCATION IS GREAT.

BUT A LOT OF THE INCARCERATED POPULATION, IT'S NOT REALLY THEIR THING.

SO I THINK THAT ALSO NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT, TOO, EXPANDING IT.

THERE ARE A LOT OF TRADES OUT THERE THAT MAYBE WHILE THEY'RE INCARCERATED THEY CAN LEARN THESE TRADES.

THAT WAY WHEN THEY'RE OUT, THEY CAN EARN A LIVING WAGE AND NOT COME BACK.

>> ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH THAT.

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE IDEA OF EXPANDING PATHWAYS TO LEAVING PRISON, MAYBE THINGS THAT ARE NOT AVAILABLE NOW TO THE INCARCERATED POPULATION.

>> I BELIEVE IF THEY EARN THE TIME, EARN TIME THAT YOU MAKE REFERENCE TO, IF THEY EARN THE RIGHT TO LEAVE EARLY, AGAIN, THAT'S THE JUSTICE SYSTEM AND PAROLE SYSTEM TO MAKE THOSE DECISIONS.

IT'S NOT UP TO THE CORRECTION OFFICERS.

BUT I BELIEVE IF THEY CAN EARN THEIR WAY OUT OF PRISON, THAT MEANS THEY BEHAVED BETTER, THEY'RE LESS DESTRUCTIVE IN PRISON AND PROGRAMMING WORKS.

MY MEMBERSHIP, THE LIEUTENANT'S MEMBERSHIP, THE CORRECTION OFFICERS, THE SERGEANTS, THE LIEUTENANTS, YOU DON'T EVER HEAR US COMPLAIN ABOUT PROGRAMMING.

WE JUST NEED THE STAFF TO RUN IT.

BECAUSE I KNOW THAT I CAN GO AND RUN A VOCATIONAL CENTER AT THE FACILITY THAT I USED TO WORK AT.

WE WOULD RUN A SOAP FACTORY WITH THREE CORRECTION OFFICERS AND 100 INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS IN THAT AREA.

BUT I CAN'T RUN ONE SINGLE R.R.U.

INMATE-- INCARCERATED INDIVIDUAL, I NEED THREE PEOPLE TO DO THAT FOR ONE INCARCERATED.

>> I WANT TO FOLLOW UP ON SOMETHING YOU MENTIONED EARLIER ABOUT THE PRISON CLOSURES AND THE STATE BUDGET GAVE THE GOVERNOR AUTHORITY TO CLOSE ADDITIONAL PRISONS WITHIN THE NEXT 10 MONTHS, THIS FISCAL YEAR.

IT'S PROBABLY GOING TO HAPPEN.

SO IF IT IS GOING TO HAPPEN, WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE RIGHT WAY TO CLOSE A PRISON?

YOU PROBABLY DON'T WANT TO SEE ANY PRISON CLOSE BUT IF IT IS GOING TO HAPPEN, WHAT IS THE RIGHT WAY TO DO IT SO THAT IT WORKS FOR THE INCARCERATED PEOPLE AS WELL AS THE PEOPLE IN PRISON AND SOCIETY AT LARGE?

>> I DON'T NECESSARILY KNOW IF THERE IS A RIGHT WAY TO DO IT.

>> DOING THIS QUITE A LONG TIME AND I WOULDN'T TAKE A SPOT FROM SOMEBODY THAT COULD STAY AT HOME WHEN IT IS NOT NECESSARY FOR ME TO STAY AT HOME BECAUSE I WORK IN ALBANY EVERY DAY.

BUT BECAUSE OF THAT CLOSURE, THEY WANT PEOPLE TRAVELING FROM FIVE MILES TO WORK TO AN HOUR AND 45 MINUTES BECAUSE THE CLOSEST FACILITY IS WASHINGTON, WHICH WAS ACROSS THE STREET.

COULDN'T TAKE 41 IS OFFICERS.

-- 411 OFFICERS SO NOW THEY'RE TRAVELING TO GREEN AND AS FAR NORTH AS ADIRONDACK AND CLINTON.

SO IT'S EITHER YOU WORK AND RELOCATE FROM WHERE YOUR FAMILY IS YOUR HERITAGE OR SCHOOLS ARE.

YOU RELOCATE OR TRAVEL.

I DON'T THINK THERE IS A RIGHT ANSWER FOR PRISON CLOSURES.

THEY SPREAD THE INCARCERATED POPULATION AND THEY-- THE USE THE WORD WAREHOUSE THEY WILL MOVE 800 INCARCERATED FROM ONE FACILITY AND DISBURSE THEM INTO OTHERS WHICH IS BURDENS THEORY FACILITIES BECAUSE-- THE OTHER FACILITIES BECAUSE THE STAFF IS NOT THERE.

>> I WANT TO ADD I DON'T KNOW IF THERE NECESSARILY IS A RIGHT WAY TO DO IT.

ONE THING HAVE I SEEN WITH PRISON CLOSURES IN THE PAST IS THAT IF WE ALREADY HAVE STAFFING SHORTAGES, LOSING STAFFING ITEM NUMBERS ALONG WITH THOSE PRISON CLOSURES, THAT SHOULD NOT BE HAPPENING.

>> WHAT DOES THAT MEAN STAFFING ITEM NUMBERS.

>> CERTAIN ITEM NUMBERS AT FACILITIES.

LET'S SAY A FACILITY HAS, WE'LL SAY 10 LIEUTENANTS AND THAT FACILITY CLOSES, THOSE ITEMS ARE GONE.

THOSE 10 LIEUTENANT ITEM NUMBERS ARE GONE.

THEY'RE FACTORED INTO THE BUDGET AND WHAT THE STATE WOULD SAVE BY CLOSING THOSE FACILITIES.

THAT SHOULDN'T HAPPEN.

NOT DURING-- THE WAY WE ARE SHORT STAFFED, THOSE 10 ITEMS SHOULD BE DISBURSED AMONGST THE OTHER FACILITIES SO THAT WAY YOU HAVE INCREASED STAFFING.

YOU HAVE INCREASED SUPERVISION.

PEOPLE HAVE ALWAYS SAID, THE MERE PRESENCE OF A LIEUTENANT MOSTLY DEESCALATES ANY SITUATION.

>> IT HAS BEEN REALLY HELPFUL TODAY, I THINK.

>> SO, YOU KNOW, YOU SHOULD DISBURSE THESE ITEMS.

YOU SHOULD PUT THEM THROUGHOUT THE STATE EVENLY.

>> ALEX, HAVE YOU SEEN ANYTHING IN YOUR REPORTING OR TALKING TO STATE OFFICIALS THAT SUGGEST THAT THE NEXT PRISON CLOSURES, ASSUMING THEY'RE GOING TO HAPPEN, IS GOING TO LOOK ANY DIFFERENT THAN PRISON CLOSURES IN THE PAST.

>> NO.

THIS MODEL CAME FROM ANDREW CUOMO'S DAYS, THE FIRST GOVERNOR TO OVERSEE A WHOLE SCALE WINDING DOWN OF THE STATE PRISON PRISON.

WE USE-- SYSTEM.

HE WAS THE ONE WHO CLOSED A NUMBER OF THEM.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THAT THE GOVERNOR ALWAYS HAS POWER TO CLOSE PRISONS.

THEY NEED TO GIVE A YEAR'S NOTICE.

WHEN THEY ASK TO CLOSE A NUMBER OF PRISON WITH THE 90-DAY PERIOD, REALLY, THAT'S A POLITICAL DECEMBER-- THAT IS A POLITICAL DECISION MEANT TO INSULATE THE GOVERNOR FROM AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF A COMMUNITY BEING MAD AT THEM THAT THEY'RE SHUTTING DOWN A MAJOR EMPLOYER.

>> SO CYNICAL, ALEX.

YOU HAVEN'T BEEN REPORTING THAT LONG.

>> THAT'S HOW IT WAS UNDER CUOMO AND KATHY HOCHUL HAS TAKEN THE SAME MODEL.

SHE HASN'T CHANGED IT AT ALL.

WHEN THEY SHUT DOWN A PRISON, IT IS A QUICK NOTICE, 90 DAY NOTICE.

THEY GET THE NOTICE IN OCTOBER, CHRISTMAS SURPRISE IF WILL YOU BECAUSE USUALLY THE FACILITIES CLOSE BY THE END OF THE YEAR AND THEY DON'T REALLOCATE THOSE JOBS INTO OTHER FACILITIES.

THEY TRY TO PUT PEOPLE IN OPEN JOBS IN OTHER FACILITIES.

ULTIMATELY YOU LOSE THOSE JOBS.

I DON'T SEE ANYTHING DIFFERENT HAPPENING THIS YEAR IN THAT REALM.

I THINK THEY MAY LOOK FOR PRISONS THAT ARE CLOSE CLOSER GEOGRAPHICALLY TO OTHER PRISONS WHO HAVE OPENING BUT FUNDAMENTALLY IT WILL LOOK LIKE IT HAS THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS.

>> I WANT TO COME BACK TO THE ISSUE OF INCREASING STAFFING AND I WONDER WHETHER YOU SEE THAT AS A PANACEA FOR EXPANDING ACCESS TO PROGRAMMING, MAKING PRISONS SAFER OR WHETHER IF YOU ARE GOING TO INCREASE THE NUMBER OF STAFF, WHETHER IT'S GUARDS OR ANYONE ELSE, IT MATTERS WHO YOU ARE BRINGING IN, WHAT THE TRAINING LOOKS LIKE, THE ATMOSPHERE.

WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE IF NEW STAFF IS SUPPOSED TO COME ON OR JUST NEW STAFF COMING ON SOLVES ALL OF THE PROBLEMS.

>> I DON'T THINK NEW STAFF COMING ON SOLVES ALL OF THE PROBLEMS.

IT LOOKS LIKE IF YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE STATISTICS, WE ARE SHORT STAFFED IN MEDICAL.

WE ARE SHORT STAFFED IN, YOU KNOW, DENTAL.

THERE IS A LACK OF, YOU KNOW, TEACHERS AND THINGS LIKE THAT SO WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT STAFFING IT IS NO THE JUST CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS BUT ACROSS THE BOARD.

AND THAT IMPACTS THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF THOSE WHO ARE INCARCERATED AND THOSE WHO WORK THERE.

I AM A LITTLE BIT CONCERNED ABOUT LOWERING THE AGE TO 18 FOR CORRECTIONAL OFFICES.

I WAS A LITTLE SURPRISED THAT THEY DIDN'T CONSIDER EVEN POTENTIALLY RAISING THE AGE FOR CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS AND, YOU KNOW, I DO THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE TRAINING AND UNFORTUNATELY THEY'RE, LIKE ALEX SAID, ADDRESSING A LARGER POPULATION OF THOSE WHO HAVE MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES OR ARE COMING FROM BACKGROUNDS OF TRAUMA AND ABUSE AND SO I THINK THAT CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS NEED ONGOING TRAINING ON HOW TO WORK WITH THAT POPULATIONS SO THAT WE DON'T SEE SOME OF THE ABUSE AND VIOLENCE THAT WE HAVE SEEN OR HEARD ABOUT LATELY.

I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE ONGOING TRAINING FOR CORRECTIONAL OFFICES.

CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS HAVE A REALLY HIGH SUBSTANCE USE ISSUES THEMSELVES.

HIGH DIVORCE RATES THEMSELVES.

THEY HAVE, YOU KNOW, A LOW LIFE EXPECTANCY.

SO WE NEED TO RECOGNIZE THAT THE JOB IS HARD AND THAT WE NEED TO PROVIDE THEM WITH THE RESOURCES TO BE ABLE TO MAKE HEALTHY CHOICES FOR THEMSELVES, FOR THEIR FAMILIES AND FOR THE INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS THAT THEY'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR.

I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR SUGGESTIONS AND IDEAS NOW THAT WE ARE AT THE TABLE TO HOW THEY WOULD ADDRESS STAFFING SHORTAGES.

BECAUSE IT IS A NATIONWIDE CRISIS AND A LOT OF BUSINESSES ARE FACED-- A LOT OF BUSINESS BUSINESS AND LAW ENFORCEMENT ARE FACING STAFFING SHORTAGES.

EDUCATION IS NOT ISOLATED FROM THIS ISSUE EITHER.

IT IS SOMETHING WE SEE ACROSS THE BOARD AND I DON'T THINK WE CAN JUST CUT PROGRAMS AND GET RID OF PROGRAMMING THAT WE KNOW IS GOING TO ACTUALLY MAKE OUR COMMUNITY SAFER IN THE LONG RUN DOWN THE ROAD, DUE TO THIS LACK.

SO HOW CAN WE THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX AND MAYBE USE OUR RESOURCES THAT WE DO HAVE MORE EFFECTIVELY TO MEET THE NEEDS OF THE INCARCERATED PEOPLE WHO CAN GET ACCESS TO THOSE PROGRAMS.

>> WELL, MATT, TWO THINGS, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE LANGUAGE IN THE BUDGET CREATING A PATHWAY FOR SOMEONE UNDER 21 DOWN TO 18 TO JOIN THE PRISON STAFF, ALBEIT WITH CERTAIN RESTRICTIONS ON THEIR POWERS AND THEIR OVERSIGHT?

AND I GUESS FOLLOWING UP ON THAT, WHAT CAN BE DONE TO GROW THE PRISON STAFF, SO TO SPEAK?

>> I HAVE MIXED EMOTIONS ON THE 18 YEAR OLDS.

AS A UNION OFFICIAL ONE OF OUR BIGGEST COMPLAINTS IS STAFFING.

IF 18 YEAR OLDS WILL HELP OUR STAFFING PROBLEM AND THEY HAVE PUT SOME STIPULATIONS ON AN 18-YEAR-OLD THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO BE-- I THINK IT'S AN 18-MONTH PROBATIONARY PERIOD WHERE THEY WOULD HAVE TO BE WITH SOMEBODY ELSE, BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, THAT SAME INDIVIDUAL CAN DECIDE WHO RUNS OUR COUNTRY AND CAN BE MANDATED TO GO DEFEND IT AND CAN SIGN UP FOR THE MILITARY.

SO IF AN 18-YEAR-OLD CAN DO ALL THREE OF THOSE THINGS, THEY CAN BECOME A CORRECTION OFFICER.

>> FOLLOWING UP ON THE LARGER ISSUE OF MAYBE RECRUITMENT AND RETENTION-- >> IT'S GOING TO HELP WITH RECRUITMENT.

I DON'T KNOW HOW IT'S GOING TO HELP WITH RETENTION.

>> WHAT ELSE COULD BE DONE OR SHOULD BE DONE TO HELP WITH RECRUITMENT AND RETENTION?

>> I KNOW THAT OUR DEATH CAMPBELL BILL HAS BEEN IN THE LEGISLATURE IN THE STATISTIC-- >> WHAT IS THAT?

>> ONCE I REACH A RETIREMENT, OURS IS SERVICE BASED, IT'S 25 YEARS.

IF I STAY PAST 25 YEARS AND HYPOTHETICALLY I'LL USE MYSELF, FOR AN EXAMPLE.

IF I WAS TO DIE IN A CAR CRASH, MY FAMILY RECEIVES ONLY THREE TIMES MY SALARY EVEN THOUGH I'VE GIVEN THE STATE OF NEW YORK AND THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS 32 YEARS OF SERVICE.

YOU ARE ONLY ENTITLED THREE TIMES MY SALARY BUT THE DEATH GAMBLE, IF THAT GOT PASSED, MY BENEFICIARIES WHICH WOULD BE MY CHILDREN, WOULD BE ENTITLED TO MY RETIREMENT THAT I SPENT 32 YEARS WORKING FOR.

AND IT'S BEEN PASSED THROUGH THE SENATE, PASSED THROUGH THE ASSEMBLY, AND IT'S BEEN ON THE GOVERNOR'S DESK AT LEAST TWO TIMES THAT I KNOW OF AND THEY VETO IT EVERY TIME AND THEY SAY YOU PUT IT IN THE BUDGET, LIT GET THROUGH THE BUDGET.

DOESN'T GO THROUGH THE BUDGET, GET IT ON MY DESK I'LL SIGN IT.

WE HAVE BEEN TRYING TO GET THAT PASSED FOR MORE, IN EXCESS OF 20 YEARS.

THAT WOULD HELP WITH RETENTION.

>> YOU WANT TO SAY SOMETHING.

>> I WANT TO SAY WHAT WOULD ALSO HELP WITH RETENTION IS LIKE MYSELF WHEN I CAME IN, I WAS A TIER 3.

THERE IS AN INCENTIVE-- >> AND YOU LOOK SO YOUNG.

>> THERE IS AN INCENTIVE FOR ME TO WORK MORE.

THERE IS AN INCENTIVE FOR ME TO STAY.

I CAN INCREASE MY PENSION.

WHERE THE CURRENT CORRECTION OFFICERS, THE CURRENT STAFF COMING INTO THE CORRECTION SETTING, THEY DON'T.

THEY'RE TIER 6S.

SO FOR THEM TO STAY, FOR THEM TO WORK ADDITIONAL, FOR THEM TO STAY LONGER, IT DOESN'T BENEFIT THEM IN ANY WAY.

I MEAN WHEN I CAME IN, THE SALARY WAS VERY LOW WHEN I CAME IN COMPARED TO WHAT IT IS NOW.

AND I DID IT BECAUSE I KNEW THAT I WOULD HAVE A DECENT RETIREMENT THAT RETIEMPLET IS NO LONGER THE SAME.

THAT RETIREMENT IS NO LONGER CONSIDERED DECENT BY PUBLIC STANDARDS.

>> AND EVEN NOW, THE HEAD OF THE CORRECTIONS COMMITTEE IN THE STATE SENATE ACKNOWLEDGES GUARDS ARE NOT PAID WELL AND IT IS A VERY DIFFICULT JOB.

BUT ALEX, I WANT TO TURN TO AN ISSUE, WHICH IS THE STAFF THAT IS JUST THERE, BUT NOT WORKING, THE INSPECTOR GENERAL HAS MADE A BIG DEAL ABOUT THE USE OF WORKER'S COMPENSATION.

CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT ISSUE AND WHY THERE IS A PUSH FOR SOME REFORMS, AT LEAST BY INSPECTOR GENERAL LOUIS-- LUCY LANG.

>> AS MARK MENTIONED THERE WERE A NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO WERE ROPED UP IN THE 8,000 PEOPLE WHO WERE STRIKING, WHO REALLY WEREN'T STRIKING.

THEY WERE OUT FOR A NUMBER OF VARIOUS DIFFERENT REASONS, WORKING IN THE STATE PRISONS IS A VERY DANGEROUS JOB AND PEOPLE GET INJURED ALL OF THE TIME.

SO IT ENDS UP THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT STAFFING SHORTAGES STRUCTURALLY AND THEN THERE IS AN ONGOING MIX OF PEOPLE WHO ARE OUT FOR VARIOUS OTHER REASONS, FOR VERY PERMISSIVE WORKER'S COMP REASON, SICK TIME REASONS, AND IT COSTS THE STATE A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF MONEY.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'LL END UPSET LING ON.

I THINK THERE IS A REAL PUSH IN THE STATE'S, YOU KNOW, IN THE LEGISLATURE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE NOT MAKING IT LESS ATTRACTIVE TO BE A GUARD OR WORK IN THE STATE PRISONS BUT THERE DOES SEEM TO BE A DRIVE TO GET COSTS UNDER CONTROL AT LEAST.

>> MATT, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE WORKER'S COMPENSATION SYSTEM, ONE OF THE ISSUES RAISED BY THE INSPECTOR GENERAL IS BASICALLY THAT WHAT HAS BEEN NEGOTIATED WITH THE STATE IS LACKING IN OVERSIGHT COMPARED TO WHAT OTHER LAW ENFORCEMENT HAVE AND THAT SOME OF THE INCIDENTS OF CLAIMS ARE NOT ACTUALLY RELATED TO CONTACT WITH THE PRISON POPULATION.

SO GIVEN THOSE CONCERNS, IS THERE ANY MOVEMENT, DO YOU THINK, ON CHANGING THE WORKER'S COMPENSATION RELATIONSHIP WITH THE STATE AND MAYBE IN EXCHANGE FOR OTHER INCENTIVES TO BRING PEOPLE ON OR KEEP PEOPLE ON OR DO YOU THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO THE UNION AND YOUR MEMBERS TO RETAIN THE STATUS QUO?

>> I BELIEVE THAT THERE WERE DISCUSSIONS HAD DURING OUR LAST COLLECTIVE BARGAINING NEGOTIATIONS ABOUT WORKMANS COMPENSATION.

WE SAW SOMETHING FOR THAT.

THE STATE DIDN'T WANT TO HEAR THAT.

SO MOVING FORWARD, WE WILL BE STARTING NEGOTIATIONS FOR ANOTHER COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT SHORTLY.

THOSE ARE DISCUSSIONS THAT WILL PROBABLY TAKE PLACE DURING THAT PROCESS.

>> RUSSELL ANY THOUGHTS ON THE WORKER'S COMPENSATION ISSUE?

>> I THINK WORKER'S COMPENSATION AS IT IS SHOULD STAY AS IT IS FOR ANY SORT OF INJURY THAT COMES FROM CONTACT WITH AN INCARCERATED.

DO I THINK IT SHOULD #-B HOW IT IS NOW FOR A SLIP AND FALL?

BECAUSE YOU ARE WALKING IN THE PARKING LOT?

NOT NECESSARILY.

BUT IF IT IS CONTACT WITH INCARCERATED, I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE HOW IT IS NOW.

I DON'T THINK A STAFF MEMBER SHOULD BE PENALIZED FOR THAT.

>> AND WHEN YOU GUYS THINK ABOUT CHANGES TO THE WORKER'S COMPENSATION SYSTEM, THE INSPECTOR GENERAL HOLDS THIS UP AS THE POTENTIAL TO BRING A LOT OF STAFF BACK ON BOARD.

DO YOU THINK THERE ACTUALLY IS THE POTENTIAL TO MAKE THAT BIG OF A DIFFERENCE WITH REFORMS OR IS IT GOING TO BE MORE AROUND THE MARGINS IF ANY REFORMS ARE EVER IMPLEMENTED?

>> I THOUGH THAT THE INSPECTOR GENERAL HAS, FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD, A TASK FORCE THAT INVESTIGATES WORKER'S COMPENSATION.

I KNOW THAT THE STATE OF NEW YORK AND THE OFFICE OF SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS THROUGH DOCCS JUST RECEIVED, I BELIEVE IT'S $7.5 MILLION TO HIRE NEW PEOPLE TO INVESTIGATE INTERNAL ISSUES IN THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS IF THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS AND THE STATE DEEMS WORKMANS COMPENSATION AN ISSUE, USE PEOPLE TO INVESTIGATE IT.

>> SO ALEX, LET'S GO BACK TO ALBANY.

THE SESSION IS GOING TO END IN THE MIDDLE OF JUNE THERE WASN'T A TON IN THE STATE BUDGET DEALING WITH NEW YORK STATE PRISONS.

WE'VE HIGHLIGHTED KIND OF EVERYTHING THAT WAS IN THERE ALREADY.

WHAT IS GOING TO BE PART OF THE AGENDA MOVING FORWARD AND WHAT ACTUALLY WILL MAKE IT TO THE FINISH LINE SO TO SPEAK BEFORE THE END OF THE YEAR?

>> WELL, PROGNOSTICATION ON WHAT MAKES IT TO THE FINISH LINE CAN GET YOU IN HOT WATER.

IT TAKES A LOT TO MOVE A BILL IN ALBANY AS YOU KNOW.

SENATOR SALAZAR WHO CHAIRS THE SENATE CORRECTIONS COMMITTEE IS VERY INTERESTED IN GETTING ACTION THIS YEAR ON A PACKAGE OF NINE BILLS FOR OVERSIGHT AND MAKING SOME CHANGES AROUND THE EDGES OF HOW THE STATE PRISONS WORK.

THERE IS A LOT OF POLITICAL MOMENTUM BEHIND THAT BECAUSE OF THE STRIKE, BECAUSE OF THE SITUATION THE PRISONS ARE IN NOW, PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO FIND ANY SOLUTION.

AND BECAUSE OF THE MURDER OF ROBERT BROOKS, THERE IS REALLY A PUSH TO REALLY START TAKING A CLOSER LOOK AT HOW THINGS WORK IN THE STATE PRISONS.

I DON'T KNOW THAT THOSE WILL PASS THIS YEAR.

THERE DOESN'T SEEM TO BE AS MUCH INTEREST IN PASSING THEM IN THE ASSEMBLY, AT LEAST FROM MY PERSPECTIVE.

I THINK IT'S GOING TO TAKE MORE CONVERSATION.

AND I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING, DEPENDING ON HOW THE REST OF THE YEAR GOES AND HOW THE STATE PRISONS MANAGE TO RECOVER OR NOT FROM THE POSITION THEY'RE IN NOW, WE MIGHT SEE IT COME UP IN THE BUDGET NEXT YEAR.

IT MIGHT BE A NEGOTIATING TOOL THAT THE SENATE AND ASSEMBLY TRY TO USE.

I DON'T KNOW THAT THERE IS GOING TO BE TOO MUCH PROGRESS THIS YEAR THOUGH.

I DON'T THINK THERE IS ENOUGH TIME.

>> IF THERE IS GOING TO BE PROGRESS, DOES IT NEED TO COME AS A RESULT OF SOMING LIKE THIS WHERE YOU ARE HEARING FROM DISPARATE VOICES OR CAN THE DEMOCRATIC MAJORITIES WHICH MIGHT HAVE A CERTAIN PERSPECTIVE ON THESE ISSUES, CAN THEY MOVE THESE ISSUES ON AT THIS OWN?

DOES IT HAVE TO BE AN OMNIBUS OR CAN THE SALAZAR PACKAGE OF NINE BILLS GAIN TRACTION?

>> I THINK THERE IS A POTENTIAL FOR BOTH BECAUSE THERE IS REALLY AN UNDERSTANDING ON ALL SIDES THAT SOMETHING NEEDS TO CHANGE.

WHAT THOSE THINGS ARE PEOPLE DISAGREE WITH.

I THINK THE SALAZAR BILL IS AT LEAST GOING TO-- THE SALAZAR BILLS ARE GOING TO GET SOME DECENT PUSHBACK FROM THE G.O.P.

MY UNDERSTANDING IS THE SENATE REPUBLICANS ARE NOT PLEASED WITH WHAT IS ON THE TABLE.

THEY DON'T THINK IT'S THE RIGHT APPROACH.

>> AND CENTRIST DEMOCRATS THINK THE SAME THING.

>> ESPECIALLY IN THE ASSEMBLY MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THERE IS A BIG COHORT OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T LOVE WHAT SALAZAR HAS PUT ON THE TABLE AND THAT'S WHY SOME OF THE BILLS DON'T HAVE COMPANIONS IN THE ASSEMBLY YET.

>> THE CORRECTIONS CHAIR DILAN IS NOT AS AGGRESSIVE WITH HIS LEGISLATIVE PORTFOLIO AS HIS COUNTERPART.

>> THEY MAKE AN INTERESTING TEAM FOR THE LEGISLATIVE CORRECTIONS ORGANIZATION OR TEAM AS IT WERE.

>> AND MELANIE, HAVE YOU 30 SECONDS.

I'M CURIOUS WHAT IF ANYTHING ARE YOU GOING TO TRY TO LEAN INTO WITH THE FINAL DAYS OF THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

>> I THINK I'M GOING TO BE PRESSURING OUR LEGISLATURE AND GOVERNOR TO PASS THE EARNED TIME ACT BROUGHT UP IN BUDGET NEGOTIATIONS.

IT PROVIDES A WAY FOR OUR INCARCERATED TO EARN THEIR WAY HOME SOONER.

IT'S NOT A GET OUT OF JAIL FREE CARD AS THE G.O.P.

HAS TRIED TO IMPLY.

THEY HAVE TO PUT IN THE WORK.

THEY HAVE TO DO THE PROGRAMMING, AND IT'S A WAY TO MAKE SURE COMMUNITY SAFER SO I'M STRONGLY ENCOURAGING THEM TO DO THAT.

I ALSO WANT TO POINT OUT THAT OUR INCARCERATED PEOPLE OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF MONTHS, HAVE WITNESSED THE THE MURDER OF ROBERT BROOKS AND HEARD ABOUT THE MERED MURDER OF MESSIAH NANTWI AND THE CONSTANT LOCK DOWNS AND NO FOOD AND THEY HAVE HELD IT TOGETHER.

>> WE CAN TALK ABOUT THIS MORE BUT THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE TODAY.

MY THANKS TO OUR PANELISTS, MATT KEOUGH [GET PRONUNCIATION], EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT FOR THE UNION REPRESENTING CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS, RUSSEL FOX, FROM THE EXECUTIVE BOARD OF THE UNION REPRESENTING TENANTS IN STATE PRISONS.

LIEUTENANTS IN STATE PRISONS, REPORTER WITH THE JOHNSON NEWSPAPER CORPORATION, AND MELANIE BISHOP, A MEMBER OF THE CENTER FOR COMMUNITY ALTERNATIVES.

AND IF YOU WANT MORE CONNECT NEW YORK CONTENT - LIKE PAST EPISODES AND ONLINE BONUS FEATURES WCNY.ORG/CONNECTNEW YORK OR CHECK OUT OUR YOUTUBE PAGE.

AND FOR MORE POLITICAL COVEARGE, INCLUDING MANY MORE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THE STATE'S PRISON SYSTEM, YOU CAN FIND ME AT CAPITOL PRESSROOM DOT ORG, OR WHERVER YOU DOWNLOAD PODCASTS.

ON BEHALF OF THE ENTIRE TEAM AT WCNY - I'M DAVID LOMBARDO - THANKS FOR WATCHING.