[ THEME MUSIC ] >> WELCOME TO THIS WEEK'S EDITION OF "NEW YORK NOW."

I'M SHANTEL DESTRA.

NEW YORK'S UNEMPLOYMENT SYSTEM IS GETTING A MAJOR TECHNOLOGY UPGRADE THIS MONTH.

THE STATE'S DEPARTMENT OF LABOR SAYS THE PROJECT HAS BEEN IN THE WORKS FOR THE PAST TEN YEARS AND IS MEANT TO ADDRESS MANY LOGISTICAL SHORTCOMINGS.

NEW YORK IS CURRENTLY ONE OF THE SLOWEST STATES IN THE NATION TO PROCESS UNEMPLOYMENT CLAIMS AND DISTRIBUTE BENEFITS.

THE CURRENT SYSTEM, WHICH HAS BEEN AROUND FOR OVER 50 YEARS WAS SUNSET ON NOVEMBER 5TH AND WILL BE OFF-LINE FOR UP TO 12 DAYS DURING THIS ENTIRE PROCESS.

ONCE COMPLETED, THE NEW MODERN PLATFORM WILL BE COMPLETE WITH AN EASIER USER INTERFACE AND WILL ALLOW USERS TO TRACK THE STATUS OF THEIR CLAIMS ONLINE.

IN THIS NEXT SEGMENT, DAVID LOMBARDO OF WCNY'S THE CAPITAL PRESS ROOM, SAT DOWN WITH THE LABOR COMMISSIONER TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IT TOOK TO START THE UPGRADE, THE COST TO THE STATE AND HOW NEW YORKERS WILL BE AFFECTED.

HERE'S THAT CONVERSATION.

[ THEME MUSIC ] >> WELL, COMMISSIONER, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR MAKING THE TIME.

I APPRECIATE IT.

>> I'M VERY HAPPY TO BE HERE WITH YOU.

>> SO FOR STARTERS WHAT ARE SOME OF THE SHORTCOMINGS OF THE CURRENT UNEMPLOYMENT SYSTEM BUILT FIVE DECADES AGO THAT YOU'RE HOPING TO GET ADDRESSED WITH THE UPGRADED SYSTEM THAT IS SCHEDULED TO GO ONLINE IN NOVEMBER?

>> SO THE SYSTEM THAT WE HAVE CURRENTLY IS DEFINITELY ONE OF THE OLDER SYSTEMS IN THE COUNTRY.

MANY OTHER STATES HAVE SIMILAR ONES, BUT IT IS OVER 50 YEARS OLD.

IT IS NOT ABLE TO EXPAND.

IT IS, YOU KNOW, LAN-BASED.

THE NEW SYSTEM IS CLOUD-BASED SO IT CAN EXPAND TO SERVE PEOPLE.

IT'S VERY LIMITED IN ITS CAPACITY.

TWO THINGS THAT DRIVE US CRAZY.

IT ALLOWS CUSTOMERS TO COME IN AND BEGIN A CLAIM AND NOT FILL OUT THE COMPLETE CLAIM FORM AND TRY TO MOVE AHEAD IN THE SYSTEM.

SYSTEM LETS IT MOVE AHEAD AND KICKS IT OUT AS AN INCOMPLETE CLAIM FORM.

THAT IS THE NUMBER ONE REASON PEOPLE END UP HAVING TO CALL US.

IT ALSO IS COMPLETELY DARK ABOUT THE STATUS OF YOUR CLAIM.

SO YOU GO IN.

YOU FILL OUT YOUR CLAIM.

YOU WANT TO KNOW WHEN IS MY BENEFIT GOING TO ARRIVE.

YOU HAVE NO IDEA.

THE SYSTEM TELLS YOU NOTHING.

IT MAKES INDUSTRY, BUSINESSES, EMPLOYERS, TALK TO US THROUGH FAXES.

IF WE SEND A REQUEST FOR INFORMATION, THEY HAVE TO FAX THE INFORMATION BACK TO US.

IT IS NOT AVAILABLE ON MOBILE DEVICES.

YOU CAN START A CLAIM ON A MOBILE DEVICE AND IT WON'T LET YOU FINISH.

SO IT'S NOT MODERN, AND IT MAKES IT HARDER TO DO RESEARCH.

SO WE'VE TALKED TO A LOT OF OUR CUSTOMERS.

WE'VE DONE A LOT OF RESEARCH.

AS I SAID, THE NUMBER ONE AND NUMBER TWO DRIVERS OF THE PHONE TRAFFIC IS INCOMPLETE CLAIM FORMS THAT CAN'T BE PROCESSED AND THEN, YOU KNOW, LACK OF INFORMATION ON THE CLAIMS STATUS.

ON THE BUSINESS END, IT WAS HE HAVE OUTDATED.

THEY HAD TO WAIT FOR US TO BE IN OUR OFFICES TO COMMUNICATE WITH US.

NOW IT'S GOING TO BE 24/7.

THEY CAN ASSIGN REPRESENTATIVES, YOU KNOW, IF THEY HAVE PAY MASTERS THAT DO THEIR PAYROLL, THEY CAN MANAGE THE UI FUNCTION OUTSIDE OF THE BUSINESS, AND IT WILL BE WHAT PEOPLE EXPECT WHEN THEY GO ONLINE, YOU KNOW, WITH THE GOVERNMENT SERVICE.

IT WILL BE MORE EFFICIENT CLAIM PROCESSING, WHICH PROBABLY WILL SPEED UP EVERYTHING AND IT WILL ALSO ALLOW US TO DO MORE ETCH ARE.

BECAUSE WE'LL HAVE HARDER DATA.

SO I'M REALLY EXCITED TO RETIRE THE FAXES AND THE KEY PUNCH THAT STILL EXISTS.

>> WELL, LET'S TALK ABOUT EXPECTATIONS MOVING FORWARD BECAUSE NEW YORK FOCUS REPORTED LAST YEAR THAT ONLY SIX STATES WERE SLOWER IN PAYING OUT UNEMPLOYMENT CLAIMS THAN NEW YORK WITH THE EMPIRE STATE FAILING TO MEET A FEDERAL BENCHMARK FOR TIMELY PAYMENTS.

DO YOU ANTICIPATE THAT THIS UPGRADE WILL RESOLVE THAT ISSUE MOVING FORWARD?

AND IF NOT, WHAT ELSE CAN BE DONE, I GUESS?

>> WELL, ABSOLUTELY, THE NEW SYSTEM IS THE RESULT, YOU KNOW THAT WE NEED.

THE INCOMPLETE CLAIM FORM IS ONE REASON THAT WE'RE NOT ABLE TO PAY OUT CLAIMS IN A TIMELY FASHION.

THEY START THE CLAIMS SO THE CLOCK STARTS, BUT THEN THE CLAIM GETS KICKED OUT BECAUSE IT DOESN'T HAVE COMPLETE INFORMATION AND THEN THERE'S A BACK AND FORTH WITH A CUSTOMER TRYING TO RESOLVE THAT ISSUE AND THEN WE HAVE A LATE RESOLUTION.

SO THE NEW SYSTEM WILL PUT AN END TO THAT BECAUSE YOU CAN'T GO IN FURTHER TO THE SYSTEM UNTIL YOU COMPLETE THE CLAIM FORM APPROPRIATELY.

THAT IS HUGE, AND WE HAVE BEEN TELLING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, YOU KNOW, THAT IS-- THAT IS OUR SOLUTION.

THIS IS WHAT WE NEED.

>> AND YOU ANTICIPATE THAT WILL RESOLVE THE PROBLEM, OR ARE THERE GOING TO BE OTHER BUGS THAT MIGHT BE RESULTING IN PEOPLE WAITING LONGER THAN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WOULD LIKE?

>> THERE ARE SOMETIMES OTHER REASONS WHY PEOPLE'S CLAIMS ARE DELAYED.

SOMETIMES THERE'S A CHALLENGE FROM THE EMPLOYER.

BUT I THINK THE MAIN DRIVER OF THE SLOWNESS IN GETTING CLAIMS PROCESSED IS THE FACT THAT SO MANY PEOPLE ARE ABLE TO FILE INCOMPLETE CLAIMS AND THEN, YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T DO ANYTHING WITH IT UNTIL WE TALK TO THEM.

>> HOW MUCH DID THE ENTIRE UPGRADE END UP COSTING?

AND WITH THE CONTEXT THAT THIS WAS A MULTIYEAR PROJECT?

>> THIS WAS A DECADE-LONG PROJECT.

THIS WAS-- THEY HAD ACTUALLY STARTED DEVELOPING THE IDEAS FOR THE RFP BEFORE I CAME IN IN OCTOBER OF 2015.

THE RFPS GOT, I THINK, THAT WE STARTED TO ISSUE THEM OUT IN 2016.

IN 2019, WE ACTUALLY HAD A VENDOR AND THEY WERE IN OUR BUILDING AND THEN THE PANDEMIC HAPPENED IN 2020.

SO IT HAS, YOU KNOW, IT HAS HAD AN ELONGATED PATHWAY.

ALTHOUGH, WE ALWAYS KNEW IT WAS A LONG PROCESS.

THIS IS THE LARGEST UPGRADE OF ANY UNEMPLOYMENT SYSTEM IN THE UNITED STATES EVER, AND THESE SYSTEMS CANNOT BE BOUGHT OFF THE SHELF.

THEY HAVE TO BE DESIGNED PURPOSELY AND OURS IS DESIGNED ONLY FOR THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

WE'RE THE SECOND LARGEST SYSTEM IN THE UNITED STATES AND IT'S THE LARGEST SYSTEM TO GO THROUGH THIS UPGRADE.

IT COSTS $188 MILLION ALL IN.

THAT INCLUDES OUR STAFF TIME AS WELL AS VENDER AND ALL OF THAT, AND IT'S A MIX OF FEDERAL AND STATE MONEY.

IT IS-- IT IS, FRANKLY, WHAT OUR CUSTOMERS HAVE BEEN ASKING US FOR.

I THINK IT'S WHAT CUSTOMERS DESERVE.

SO IT'S A LOT OF MONEY BUT IT IS A LOT OF SYSTEM.

AND WHEN THIS SYSTEM GOES LIVE IN THE FUTURE, AS IT NEEDS TO BE UPGRADED AND WE KNOW THAT WILL HAPPEN, YOU CAN UPGRADE IT WHILE IT'S WORKING.

IT'S IN THE CLOUD.

IT'S BUILT TO HAVE CONTINUAL IMPROVEMENT.

SO AS THE WORLD OF WORK CHANGES OR REGULATIONS CHANGE, WE CAN GO IN AND MANIPULATE THE SYSTEM AND ADD NEW CODING OR NEW PROVISIONS WHILE THE REST OF THE SYSTEM CONTINUES TO OPERATE.

THAT IS SIGNIFICANT, AND THAT IS A GAME-CHANGER.

THE OLD SYSTEM, YOU HAVE TO SHUT IT DOWN COMPLETELY FOR DAYS IN ORDER TO CHANGE ANYTHING.

>> IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY AT LEAST DURING THE PANDEMIC, THERE WAS THIS ISSUE WITH NEEDING TO BRING OUT OF RETIREMENT CODERS FROM THE '70S AND '80S BECAUSE NOBODY WORKED ON THIS FORMAT ANYMORE?

>> I WAS ONCE TOLD BY SOMEBODY IN I.T.

THAT OUR SYSTEM WAS SECURE BECAUSE NOBODY KNEW THE CODE THAT IT WAS WRITTEN IN.

IT DIDN'T MAKE ME FEEL VERY SECURE, BUT YES.

IT ORIGINALLY WAS CODED IN COBOL.

THERE'S A GROUP OF RETIREES WHO CALL THEMSELVES THE COBOL COWBOYS AND THEY MAKE THEMSELVES AVAILABLE TO STATES BECAUSE WE'RE NOT THE ONLY ONES WITH COBOL-CODED MACHINES.

.

I EXPECT A LOT OF GOVERNMENT SYSTEMS IN STATES AND IN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WILL BE GOING THROUGH THIS PROCESS OVER THE COMING YEARS BECAUSE IT'S PAST TIME.

WE NEED TO UPGRADE THESE SYSTEMS AND WE HAVE.

>> WELL, LASTLY, ON THE TIME LINE FRONT, BACK IN 2022, THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE ANNOUNCED THAT THE STATE WAS ABOUT HALFWAY THROUGH WHAT THEY HAD DESCRIBED AS A FOUR-YEAR MODERNIZATION UPGRADE.

I GUESS WHAT HAPPENED IN THE ENSUING YEARS THAT RESULTED IN LOOKING AT A COMPLETION DATE OF LATE 2026.

>> THERE WAS MORE CODING THAT NEEDED TO BE DONE.

YOU KNOW, THE SECURITY NEEDED TO BE IMPROVED.

WE DID A LOT OF TESTING AND WHAT HAPPENS IN TESTING AS YOU FIND THE BUGS THAT YOU WANT TO FIND BEFORE IT GOES LIVE, IT IS A VERY COMPLEX SYSTEM, AND WE LEARNED, DURING THE PANDEMIC, WHAT THE-- YOU KNOW, WHAT OUR FAILURES HAD BEEN PREVIOUSLY AND WE REDESIGNED THE SYSTEM BECAUSE OF THAT.

SO THERE WERE REDESIGNS.

THERE WERE SECURITY ISSUES, YOU KNOW, SECURITY CHANGES PROBABLY WEEKLY IN THIS WORLD, AND WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE WERE AS SECURE AS POSSIBLE.

WE FEEL MUCH BETTER ABOUT THE SECURITY WE HAVE NOW THAN WHAT WE DESIGNED, FRANKLY, THREE YEARS AGO.

THIS SECURITY ALLOWS A LOT OF DATA ANALYSIS NOW THAT WE'LL BE ABLE TO PREVENT FRAUD FROM HAPPENING IN THE SYSTEM AND IT WILL MAKE A MUCH MORE EFFICIENT MACHINE.

>> SO THEY'RE GOING TO BE, FOR WHATEVER REASON, PEOPLE WHO EITHER CAN'T GET BY SOLELY ON ONLINE SERVICES OR JUST PREFER TO TALK TO A HUMAN BEING AND THERE HAVE BEEN SOME REPORTS IN THE PAST ABOUT THE WAIT TIMES FOR PEOPLE TRYING TO GET THROUGH WITH THE CALL CENTERS.

IS THE HOPE THAT THERE WILL BE JUST LESS DEMAND FOR PEOPLE WHO NEED TO TALK TO A REAL PERSON BECAUSE OF A BETTER DIGITAL TOOL, OR ARE YOU INVESTING IN, SAY, THE CALL CENTER STAFF AS WELL?

>> WELL, WE ALWAYS INVEST IN THE CALL CENTER STAFF.

YOU KNOW, THEY ARE A REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT PART OF OUR SETUP.

THAT WAS PROVED DURING THE PANDEMIC WHEN THEY WORKED 24/7, YOU KNOW, SEVEN DAYS A WEEK SOME OF THEM.

THEY WERE INDISPENSABLE AND HIGHLY VALUED IN OUR STRUCTURE.

BUT WE'RE ALSO OFFERING OUR CUSTOMERS ONLINE ASSISTANCE SO THEY WON'T HAVE TO TALK TO PEOPLE.

WE KNOW THE INCOMPLETE FORM AND THE LACK OF CLAIMS STATUS ARE THE ONE AND TWO REASONS WHY PEOPLE CALL.

THAT ALONE WILL REDUCE THE CALL VOLUME WHICH WILL THEN FREE UP THE VALUABLE HUMANS TO DO THE WORK THAT THEY'RE WELL TRAINED TO DO.

SO WE'RE REALLY EXPECTING THAT OUR CALL CENTER PEOPLE WILL REALLY BE ABLE TO PUT THEIR FOCUS ON THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE DIFFICULTY WITH TECHNOLOGY OR HAVE DIFFICULT CLAIMS, YOU KNOW, THAT NEED A HUMAN BEING TO INTERVENE.

MOST PEOPLE SHOULD BE ABLE TO GO ONLINE, DO THEIR BUSINESS AND GO BACK OUT AND DO THE JOB SEARCH THAT THEY SHOULD BE DOING.

>> SO I CAN'T IMAGINE A TIME WHERE YOU'VE APPEARED BEFORE THE STATE LEGISLATURE WHERE LAWMAKERS HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT HOW THEIR OFFICES HAVE HAD TO HELP CONSTITUENTS NAVIGATE THE UNEMPLOYMENT PROCESS.

DO YOU EXPECT THAT'S GOING TO BE REQUIRED IN THE FUTURE, OR IS THE IDEA THAT THIS UPGRADE IS GOING TO BE SO GOOD THAT THEY WON'T NEED TO TURN TO THEIR LOCAL LAWMAKERS FOR HELP?

>> THAT IS OUR HOPE.

I'M SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, THINGS WILL HAPPEN.

THERE WILL BE, YOU KNOW, THINGS THAT DROP THROUGH THE CRACKS AND PEOPLE WILL NEED HELP, AND WE'LL PROBABLY CONTINUE TO REACH OUT TO THE LEGISLATORS WE HOPE AT A MUCH REDUCED LEVEL.

WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CAN PROVIDE THIS SERVICE UP FRONT THAT PEOPLE NEED AND THEREFORE, THEY DON'T NEED TO ASK ARE TO EXTRA HELP.

I WOULD POINT OUT FOR EVERYBODY WHO'S LISTENING, NOVEMBER 2ND AT 5:00 P.M.

THE SYSTEM GOES INTO TRANSITION.

FROM NINE TO TWELVE DAYS AT THAT TIME, THE SYSTEM WILL BE UNAVAILABLE TO ALL CUSTOMERS WHEN THE SYSTEM IS READY, WE WILL ALERT CUSTOMERS BY EMAIL, TEXT, BY PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT.

WE'LL HAVE A LOT OF INFORMATION.

PEOPLE WILL GO BACK INTO THE UI SYSTEM.

IF YOU ARE ALREADY A CUSTOMER, USE YOUR LOGIN YOU ALWAYS USED.

GO IN AND CERTIFY AS YOU ALWAYS HAVE.

THE SYSTEM WILL PROMPT YOU TO CERTIFY FOR WHATEVER WEEK YOU MAY HAVE MISSED DURING THE PERIOD OF TRANSITION.

SO NOBODY'S GOING TO LOSE ANY MONEY IN THE TRANSITION.

IT WILL JUST COME PROBABLY A WEEK LATER.

IF YOU'RE A NEW CUSTOMER, YOU WILL BE GUIDED THROUGH THE SYSTEM BY THE SYSTEM.

YOU CAN DO IT ALL ON YOUR SMARTPHONE AND IT SHOULD BE PRETTY SEAMLESS.

BUT NOVEMBER 2ND, IF YOU ARE ALREADY IN THE SYSTEM, PLEASE TRY TO CERTIFY FOR YOUR WEEK BEFORE NOVEMBER 2ND AT 5:00.

THAT MEANS THAT CHECK WILL BE PROCESSED AND SENT TO YOU.

FOR NINE TO TWELVE DAYS THAT WE'LL BE DARK, THAT WE'LL BE IN TRANSITION, THEN, YOU KNOW, YOU WILL MISS ONE CERTIFICATION PERIOD.

YOU'LL CERTIFY WHEN THE SYSTEM IS BACK UP.

>> WELL, I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THE TRANSITION.

FOR EXAMPLE, ARE YOU ANTICIPATING, SAY, AN INFLUX OF CLAIMS ON HALLOWEEN BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE AWARE OF THIS TIME WHERE IT'S GOING TO BE OFF-LINE?

AND IF YOU ARE ANTICIPATING SOME SORT OF BARRAGE OF CLAIMS, IS THAT SOMETHING YOU NEED TO MANY RAP UP FOR?

>> OF COURSE.

AND WE ARE READY FOR IT.

I MEAN, USUALLY, YOU CAN CERTIFY ON SUNDAY EVENING AND THE MONDAY THAT OF YOUR WEEK.

YOU CAN'T CERTIFY-- YOU CAN'T GO IN ON FRIDAY AND CERTIFY BECAUSE YOUR WEEK ISN'T ENDED YET, BUT WE KNOW THAT SUNDAY NIGHT AND MONDAY IS A VERY, VERY HEAVY DAY ANYWAY FOR CERTIFICATION.

AND THAT IS WHEN PEOPLE-- ACTUALLY WHEN THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE DO CERTIFY.

SO WE'RE EXPECTING THAT.

BUT IF YOU MISS THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU'LL MAKE IT UP ON THE BACK END.

>> WHAT SORT OF RESOURCES ARE YOU GOING TO HAVE ON HAND DURING THAT TRANSITION TO ENSURE THAT YOU'RE ABLE TO STICK TO THAT NINE TO TWELVE DAY CALENDAR?

BECAUSE WE'VE SEEN SOME GOVERNMENT WEBSITES ROLL OUT WITH SOME HEADACHES AND MAYBE PEOPLE WISH IT HAD GONE A LITTLE SMOOTHER.

SO HOPE FOR THE BEST, PLAN FOR THE WORST.

I MEAN, WHAT SORT OF PLANNING ARE YOU PUTTING IN PLACE IN >> SO WE HAVE BEEN TESTING ALL THE WAY ALONG.

FOR SOME REASON, THE BUILD TOOK SO LONG.

WE HAVE BEEN DOING TESTING.

THIS PAST YEAR HAS REALLY BEEN SOME DEVELOPMENT, BUT MOSTLY IT'S BEEN TESTING OF THE SYSTEM THAT'S ALREADY BEEN BUILT.

YOU TEST AND RETEST.

YOU FIX THE BUGS THAT YOU FIND AND EVERY TIME YOU DO THAT, THE BUGS GO DOWN.

SO WE ARE FEELING VERY, VERY GOOD ABOUT THE BENEFIT STRUCTURE IN THIS MACHINE RIGHT NOW, AND WE EXPECT IT TO BE PRETTY SEAMLESS.

DURING THE TRANSITION, IT WILL BE ALL HANDS ON DECK.

I WON'T BE FIXING ANYTHING ABOUT WHICH IS GOOD NEWS TO ANYBODY.

BUT ALL THE PEOPLE WHO KNOW HOW TO DO IT WILL BE DOING IT AND WE WILL CONTINUALLY TEST THROUGH THAT NINE TO TWELVE-DAY PERIOD TO MAKE SURE IT'S READY TO GO LIVE.

WHEN IT GOES LIVE, WE WILL BE AVAILABLE TO HELP WITH ANY HEADACHES THAT HAPPEN.

YOU KNOW, WILL THERE BE GLITCHES?

PERHAPS.

THIS SYSTEM HAS BEEN TESTED, LOAD TESTED, STRESS TESTED, IT'S READY TO GO.

ONE OF THE REASONS WE'RE DOING THIS COMMUNICATION PROGRAM IS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO TALK TO OUR CUSTOMERS HERE IN THE STATE SO THEY KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT.

WE'RE REACHING OUT TO THE UNIONS, TO THE ADVOCATES, TO THE LEGISLATURE, TO BUSINESS ORGANIZATIONS, TO ALL OF THE ORGANIZATIONS THAT WE USUALLY WORK WITH.

IF YOU ARE COLLECTING UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE NOW, WHEN YOU GO INTO CERTIFY YOUR WEEKLY BENEFIT, THERE'S A VIDEO THAT YOU HAVE TO WATCH BEFORE YOU CAN GO IN AND CERTIFY.

SO FOR THE NEXT FIVE WEEKS, YOU'LL SEE A VIDEO EXPLAINING EXACTLY WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

SO THERE SHOULD BE VERY FEW PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW THAT THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

>> WELL, COMMISSIONER, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR MAKING THE TIME.

I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

GOOD LUCK WITH THE ROLLOUT.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

IT'S GREAT TO TALK TO YOU.

[ THEME MUSIC ] >> AND FOR MORE ON THE UPDATES TO THE STATE'S UNEMPLOYMENT PROCESSING SYSTEM, YOU CAN VISIT OUR WEBSITE.

THAT'S AT NYNOW.ORG.

NOW TURNING IT ANOTHER IMPORTANT TOPIC.

THIS WEEK'S NEW YORK AND CLIMATE EPISODE IS ALL ABOUT WILDFIRES.

WMHT PRODUCER DANA WRIGHT WILL UNPACK THE BENEFITS AND DISADVANTAGES OF WILDFIRES, HOW THEY CONTRIBUTE TO CLIMATE CHANGE AND THE KEY ROLE THEY LAY IN THE STATE'S ECOLOGIES.

HERE'S THAT STORY.

[ THEME MUSIC ] >> I'M HERE AT THE ALBANY PINE BUSH PRESERVE LOOKING AT PATCHES OF LAND THAT HAVE PREVIOUSLY EXPERIENCED FIRE.

THIS IS AN ECOSYSTEM THAT BENS FROM REGULAR BURNS HAPPENING, BUT I'VE BEEN THINKING A LOT ABOUT FIRES LATELY, THE ROLES AND IMPACTS THEY HAVE IN VARIOUS HABITATS AND THEIR IMPACT ON US.

NOW, IF YOU'RE LIKE ME, YOU MAY HAVE EXPERIENCED MOMENTS IN RECENT SUMMERS WHERE YOU WAKE UP.

IT'S A BRAND NEW DAY.

YOU TAKE A STEP OUTSIDE AND HOLD ON A SECOND, THE SKY LOOKS LIKE IT'S HELL.

THE AIR SMELLS LIKE AN ASHTRAY.

WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON HERE?

UNFORTUNATELY, DUE TO CLIMATE CHANGE, THE RISK OF FIRES ARE GOING TO BE INCREASING, BUT THERE ARE THINGS WE CAN DO TO ADAPT AND TO MANAGE.

SO BUCKLE UP, BUCKO, WE'RE GOING TO TALK FIRES AND STUFF.

KEN, HOW WAS THAT?

>> IT WAS GREAT.

>> THANK YOU.

WHILE AT THE PINE BUSH PRESERVE, I MET UP WITH CONSERVATION DIRECTOR NEIL GIFFORD AND ONE OF THE MAJOR THINGS HE TAUGHT ME IS THAT FIRE IS NOT AN INHERENTLY BAD THING.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE ACTIVELY TRYING TO HELP FOLKS APPRECIATE IS THAT FIRE HAS A ROLE.

PRE-COLONIALLY, MOST OF THE UPLANDS IN UPSTATE NEW YORK WERE COVERED WITH SMALL, OPEN WOODLANDS AND A LOT OF OPEN SAVANNA.

AN INDIGENOUS FIRE KEPT THOSE RELATIVELY OPEN.

NATIVE GRASSLANDS, OAK HICKORY SAVANNA, PITCH PINE SCRUB OAK BARRENS LIKE HERE IN ALBANY ARE ALL EXAMPLES OF FIRE-ADAPTED ECOSYSTEMS WHERE FIRE HAS BEEN A NATURAL PROCESS IN CREATING AND SHAPING THOSE ECOSYSTEMS AND THE WILDLIFE THAT LIVE IN THEM FOR CENTURIES OR LONGER.

IT'S REMOVING COMPETING VEGETATION.

IT'S RECYCLING NUTRIENTS.

IT'S RELEASING SEEDS, PREPARING A SEED BED.

ALL OF THAT CAN BENEFIT THE PLANTS IN PARTICULAR THAT LIVE IN THOSE SYSTEMS AND THRIVE.

>> FOR EXAMPLE, THE WILD BLUE LUPIN BENEFITS FROM FIRE CLEARING OUT COMPETING VEGETATION AND INCREASING SUN EXPOSURE.

WHAT ABOUT FIRE SENSITIVE SPECIES?

>> TODAY, WE HAVE A LOT OF FOREST REVERSION FROM THE DECLINE OF AGRICULTURE.

WE HAVE OVERSTOCKED FORESTS OF FIRE SENSITIVE TREES LIKE MAPLE AND WHITE PINE AND TREES THAT DON'T NEED FIRE AS MUCH.

SO THE FORESTED ECOSYSTEM IN NEW YORK STATE HAS FLIPPED A LOT.

THE SYSTEMS NOW ARE NO LONGER AS ADAPTED AND HEALTHY TO DEAL WITH FIRE IF IT HAPPENS COMPARED TO HOW THEY FUNCTIONED HISTORICALLY.

>> SO THERE'S A LOT OF NUANCE WITH FIRE'S RELATIONSHIP TO ECOLOGIES AND SPECIES ACROSS THE STATE.

HOW DOES CLIMATE CHANGE FIT INTO ALL OF THIS?

>> CLIMATE CHANGE INCREASES THE RISK OF FIRES BECAUSE OF THE INCREASINGLY VARIABLE WEATHER THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS BRINGING US.

WE'RE GOING TO GET INCREASINGLY WET PERIODS.

THE REVERSE IS ALSO TRUE WITH THE PERIODS OF DRYNESS.

THAT WARMER AIR IS LITERALLY SUBBING MOISTURE OUT OF THE SOIL, OUT OF THE FUELS AND YOU END UP WITH CONDITIONS WHERE YOU HAVE A LOT MORE FUEL AVAILABLE FOR A WILDFIRE THAN WE HAVE HISTORICALLY BECAUSE OUR RAIN WAS MORE STEADY.

THE PROBLEM WITH CLIMATE CHANGE IS THAT IT'S INCREASING THE PROBABILITY THAT WE'RE GOING TO GET MAJOR FIRES NOT ONLY IN THE PLACES THAT BURN, BUT ALSO IN THE PLACES THAT HISTORICALLY HAVEN'T BURNED AS MUCH.

>> ANOTHER ISSUE IS HOW HUMAN DEVELOPMENT HAS FRAGMENTED MUCH OF THE LANDSCAPE, MEANING THAT WILDFIRE CAN POSE A RISK TO, WELL, US.

ARE THERE THINGS WE CAN DO TO ADDRESS THIS?

>> SO KNOWING CLIMATE CHANGE WILL CONTINUE TO INCREASE THE RISK OF WILDLAND FIRE, THERE ARE A VARIETY OF TOOLS THAT WE CAN USE AS WE ADAPT TO THOSE CHANGING CONDITIONS.

AND THAT'S REALLY WHERE THE ALBANY PINE BUSH PRESERVE IS A GREAT EXAMPLE OF THAT.

WE'RE UTILIZING PRESCRIBED FIRE IN A HIGHLY VOLATILE SYSTEM IN A SAFE AND EFFECTIVE WAY TO PROTECT PEOPLE AND WILDLIFE.

SO PRESCRIBED FIRE REDUCES THE CHANCE FOR WILDFIRES HAPPENING, IN PARTICULAR CATASTROPHIC WILDFIRES BY REDUCING AND ELIMINATING THE FUEL THAT IS AVAILABLE TO BURN UNDER EXTREME CONDITIONS.

>> SO THE ALBANY PINE BUSH PRESERVE REDUCES DANGEROUS FUELS THROUGH MOWING, TRIMMING AND USING PRESCRIBED FIRE.

I SET OUT INTO THE FIELD WITH NEIL SO HE COULD SHOW ME SOME EXAMPLES OF FUELS AND SOME SPACES WHICH HAVE EXPERIENCED BURNS.

>> SO WE'RE HERE IN THE ALBANY PINE BUSH PRESERVE SANDWICH BETWEEN THE CITIES OF ALBANY AND SCHENECTADY.

SO VISUALLY THE THING YOU NOTICE IS THAT IT KIND OF HAS THIS CLUMPY, GROUPY DISTRIBUTION OF THE WOODY PLANTS.

BOTH YOU'VE GOT SHRUBS AND SAPLINGS AND MATURE OVERSTORY TREES IN THIS MIX WITH GRASSES AND WILDFLOWERS.

AND THAT IS A GREAT CONDITION FOR US TO BE ABLE TO SAFELY MANAGE IT AND MAINTAIN IT WITH PERIODIC FIRE ONCE EVERY THREE TO FIVE YEARS AND WE KNOW FROM OUR WILDLIFE DATA THAT IT'S SUPPORTING SOME OF THE RAREST WILDLIFE IN THE STATE.

A LOT OF THE PLANTS IN THE PINE BUSH ARE ADAPTED TO DEALING WITH FIRE, BUT SOME OF THEM LIKE NEW JERSEY TEA TRULY DEPEND ON FIRE.

IT'S A WONDERFUL NECTAR PLANT, BUT THE SEEDHEADS PRODUCE SEEDS THAT IT BANKS IN THE SOIL AND IT'S THE HEAT OF FIRE THAT CRACKS A SEED COAT SO THOSE THINGS CAN GERMINATE.

INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT PLANT.

IT WAS A TRADITIONAL MEDICINAL PLANT FOR NATIVE PEOPLE AND LIKE WILD BLUE LUPIN AND KARNER.

IS, THE PLANT SUPPORTS AN ENDANGERED BUTTERFLY, A MOTTLED DUSKY WING SKIPPER AS A CATERPILLAR FEEDS ON NOTHING ELSE BUT THAT PLANT.

MITIGATING THE RISK OF WILDFIRE IS LARGELY ABOUT MANAGING DANGEROUS FUEL LOADS, AND HERE'S AN EXAMPLE WHERE WE HAVE BUILT UP WILDLAND FUELS THAT CAN BE HAZARDOUS.

IN PARTICULAR, THE SCRUB OAK HERE HAS ADAPTATIONS THAT MAKE IT VERY FLAMMABLE, AND WHEN YOU HAVE SCRUB OAK LIKE THIS BENEATH THE CANOPY OF PITCH PINE, WHICH IS ALSO FLAMMABLE, NEXT TO HOUSE AND RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENTS THAT CAN BE HAZARDOUS.

SO WE HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY IN MANAGING THIS PLACE TO REDUCE THE CHANCE OF CATASTROPHIC WILDFIRE AND CATASTROPHIC WILDFIRE SMOKE AFFECTING OUR NEIGHBORS.

>> IT IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER, HOWEVER, THAT THE WAY WE LOOK AT AND ADDRESS FIRE IN NEW YORK CANNOT BE WITH A ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL APPROACH.

>> WE SHOULD BE CAREFUL ABOUT TREATING THE RISK OF WILDLAND FIRE AS A MONOLITH UNIFORMLY ACROSS ALL OF NEW YORK STATE OR IN A PLACE LIKE THE ADIRONDACKS AT SIX MILLION ACRES BECAUSE THE REALITY IS FUELS AND CONDITIONS AROUND EACH OF THOSE COMMUNITIES VARY.

>> ANOTHER WAY TO ADDRESS FIRE RISK IS TO SIMPLY REDUCE HUMAN-CAUSED FIRES IN THE FIRST PLACE.

IT'S BALSAM FIR.

AND TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THIS, I USED MY TRUSTY FOREST PHONE AND DIALED UP LIEUTENANT KEVIN SLADE, A NEW YORK FOREST RANGER, AND HERE'S WHAT HE TAUGHT ME.

SO THE MAJORITY OF WILDFIRES ARE CAUSED BY HUMAN ACTIVITY AND LIEUTENANT SLADE HIGHLIGHTED THAT PEOPLE BURNING BRUSH AND DEBRIS IS A FREQUENT CAUSE.

SO DO NOT LEAVE YOUR FIRES UNATTENDED AND HAVE A READY SOURCE OF WATER WITH YOU.

THE RISK OF FIRE CAN BE HIGHER DURING THE SPRING BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF DEAD VEGETATION THAT CAN ACT AS FUEL.

WE ALSO SEE THE TYPE OF WEATHER THAT INCREASES FIRE RISK, WHICH INVOLVES HIGH WINDS AND THE LOWEST HUMIDITIES OF THE YEAR.

ONE OF THE WAYS THE STATE REDUCES OUR FIRE RISK IS BY IMPLEMENTING BURN BANS, WHICH PROHIBITS THE BURNING OF BRUSH DURING THE SPRING.

SINCE BEING IMPLEMENTED, THE NUMBER OF WILDFIRES WE EXPERIENCE HAS DECREASED BY 40%.

IT'S NOT JUST FIRES IN THE STATE THAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT BECAUSE WE'RE ALSO AFFECTED BY FIRES THAT HAPPEN ABROAD.

PLACES LIKE CANADA AND THE WEST COAST.

I MENTIONED EARLIER THOSE HAZY DAYS WHERE SMOKE FROM OUT-OF-STATE FIRES CAN TRAVEL TO AND LINGER IN NEW YORK, AND I WANTED TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THE CONTENTS OF THE SMOKE AND WHAT WE COULD DO ABOUT IT.

FOR THIS, I TOOK A TRIP TO THE ATMOSPHERIC SCIENCE RESEARCH CENTER AT THE UNIVERSITY OF ALBANY AND MET UP WITH JIE ZHANG, A RESEARCH ASSOCIATE AT THE ASRC.

>> THERE ARE SO MANY AIR POLLUTANTS INSIDE OF THE PLUMES.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE EPA AND THE LOCAL DEC REPORT, THEY MENTIONED THE PM 2.5.

THIS NORMALLY MEANS THE PARTICLE DIAMETER SMALLER THAN 2,500 NANOMETER.

PM 2.5 IS ALWAYS IN OUR ATMOSPHERE.

NORMALLY, YOU CANNOT SEE IT BECAUSE ITS CONCENTRATION IS TOO SMALL, BUT WHEN THE WILDFIRE SMOKE, ALL THEY COMBINE TOGETHER, THEY HAVE HIGH CONCENTRATIONS, THEN YOUR EYE CAN SEE IT.

BESIDES THE PARTICLES, THEY ALSO CONTAIN SOME DIFFERENT GASES, LOOKS LIKE OZONE, 02, AND ALSO VOLATILE ORGANIC COMPOUND VOC SPECIES.

THEY ALSO CONTAIN THE BLACK CARBON.

>> IF YOU'VE SEEN OUR EPISODE ON AIR QUALITY, YOU MAY RECALL LEARNING ABOUT THE BLACK CARBON, A MONTH COMPONENT OF PM 2.5, AND A TYPE OF PARTICLE THAT CAN GET SO SMALL THAT IT CAN PENETRATE CELL WALLS AND CAUSE A VARIETY OF HEALTH ISSUES.

SO THE FACT THAT BLACK CARBON AND OTHER FORMS OF PARTICULATE MATTER CAN BE FOUND IN WILDFIRE SMOKE MEANS THAT MEASURING AIR QUALITY IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT, AND UALBANY HAS A REALLY INTERESTING AND UNIQUE APPROACH TO DOING THIS.

AIR QUALITY MEASUREMENTS ON THE GO.

>> THIS IS OUR ASRC MOBILE LAB.

WE PUT ALL DIFFERENT KIND OF INSTRUMENT INSIDE OF IT SO THAT WE CAN MEASURE DIFFERENT KIND OF AIR POLLUTION PIECE CEASE FROM THE PARTICLE-TO-PARTICLE SIZE TO DIFFERENT KIND OF GAS SPECIES.

>> SO WHAT'S THIS?

>> THIS IS CALLED AEROSOL MASS SPECTROMETER.

EVERY 30 SECONDS, WE WILL GET THE INFORMATION ABOUT THE PARTICLE COMPOUNDS, THE ORGANIC SULFATE, AMMONIA, NITRATE.

IN THE FRONT OF THE VAN, WE HAVE MONITORS TO LOOK AT THE PERFORMANCE OF THE INSTRUMENT.

>> THE FLEXIBILITY THAT MOBILE AIR QUALITY MEASURING PROVIDES IS A GREAT ASSET, AND I'M CURIOUS IF WE'LL SEE MORE TECHNOLOGY LIKE THIS IN THE FUTURE.

>> THE FACT THAT THE MOBILE IS MOBILE MEANS THAT WE CAN TARGET PARTICULAR LOCATIONS THAT COULD BE A PARTICULAR PART OF THE STATE, OR IT COULD BE A VULNERABLE POPULATION IN AN URBAN ENVIRONMENT.

SO THAT IS WHY IT'S GREAT TO HAVE A MOBILE VAN THAT DOES THIS KIND OF WORK.

>> SO AS WE'VE LEARNED, FIRE IS A PRETTY NUANCED AND COMPLICATED TOPIC.

IT CAN BE VERY BENEFICIAL FOR SOME SPECIES AND ECOSYSTEMS AND OF COURSE, HARMFUL TO OTHERS.

THERE'S ALSO THE FACT THAT WE HAVE TO MANAGE OUR OWN FIRE RISK HERE IN STATE WHILE ALSO DEALING WITH FIRE CONSEQUENCES FROM ABROAD.

BUT THROUGH THINGS LIKE BURN BANS, AIR QUALITY MONITORING AND EVEN PRESCRIBED BURNS, THERE ARE TOOLS AT OUR DISPOSAL TO HELP MANAGE AND ADAPT TO THE CHALLENGES THAT THE CLIMATE CHANGE AND WILDFIRES CAN IMPOSE ON US.

THAT'S ALL WE HAVE TO GET TO TODAY.

STAY SAFE AND AS ALWAYS, I'LL SEE YOU OUTSIDE.

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WELL, THAT DOES IT FOR THIS EDITION OF "NEW YORK NOW."

THANK YOU FOR TUNING IN AND SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

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