>>> THIS IS "METROFOCUS" WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

"METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION.

AND BY -- JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER, JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD, CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY, JUDY AND JOSH WESTON, DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION.

>>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO THIS "METROFOCUS" SPECIAL.

REPORT ON JACK FORD.

IT'S HARD TO FORGET WHERE YOU WERE A YEAR AGO TODAY AS SOME OF THE DARKEST MOMENTS IN AMERICAN HISTORY UNFOLDED AT THE U.S. CAPITOL.

LAST JANUARY 6th THE NATION ANXIOUSLY WATCHED AS RIOTERS SUPPORTING PRESIDENT TRUMP AND STOKED BY FALSE CLAIMS OF ELECTION FRAUD VIOLENTLY STORMED THE HALLS OF CONGRESS.

12 MONTHS LATER WE'RE STILL COMING TO TERMS WITH WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED THAT DAY AND WHAT IT MEANS FOR OUR DEMOCRACY MOVING FORWARD.

IN RESPONSE, PBS AND WNET GROUP ARE PREMIERING A NEW DOCUMENTARY TONIGHT ON 13 ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO THINK CRITICALLY ABOUT THE NATION'S FUTURE AND THE ROLE WE EACH PLAY IN PRESERVING DEMOCRACY.

THE FILM TITLED "PRESERVING DEMOCRACY" PURSUING A MORE PERFECT UNION.

CHRONICLES THE HISTORY OF THE DEMOCRATIC SYSTEM FROM ITS ORIGINS TO THE PRESENT AND THE THREATS WE ARE CURRENTLY FACING.

PART OF OUR NEW PRESERVING DEMOCRACY MULTIPLATFORM INITIATIVE, THE FILM ALSO EXPLORES WHAT THE HOUSE SELECT COMMITTEE IS INVESTIGATING THE INSURRECTION IS SEEKING TO UNCOVER.

HERE'S A PREVIEW.

>> Reporter: HAS THE UNITED STATES EVER TRULY BEEN UNITED?

JOIN US AS WE EXPLORE THE EVOLVING STORY OF AMERICAN DEMOCRACY, PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE.

PRESERVING DEMOCRACY, PURSUING A MORE PERFECT UNION.

>> CONGRESSMAN KINZINGER, THIS IS THE DESK THAT YOU SAT BEHIND ON JANUARY 6th.

TAKE ME BACK TO THAT DAY.

>> IMAGINE, I HAD BEEN ON THE FLOOR FROM THE START OF THE PROCEEDING, DECIDED TO GO BACK WHEN WE WERE VOTING OBVIOUSLY IN THAT TRANSIT TO MY OFFICE IS WHEN IT STARTED HITTING THE FAN.

I PREDICTED THIS DAYS PRIOR.

SO IT WASN'T A SURPRISE TO ME.

>> Reporter: YOU SAT HERE FOR SIX HOURS WITH A GUN ON THE DESK.

>> UH-HUH.

>> Reporter: WHY DID YOU BRING IT THAT DAY?

>> AN INTERESTING QUESTION.

I NEVER -- WE'RE ALLOWED TO CARRY HERE EXCEPT ON THE HOUSE FLOOR AND I HAD MY CONCEALED PERMIT TO D.C.

BUT NEVER BROUGHT IT HERE BECAUSE WE HAD SO MANY POLICE HERE.

I WAS GETTING DEATH THREATS, A NOOSE HANGING AS A RESPONSE TO ONE OF MINE PEOPLE SAYING WE'RE GOING TO COME GET YOU.

I BROUGHT IT IN HERE NOT REALLY EXPECTED THE CAPITOL, WASN'T THAT CLAIRVOYANT TO THINK THEY WOULD REACH THE CAPITOL BUT THOUGHT MASSIVE VIOLENCE IN THE AREA AND MAY TARGET ME.

>> Reporter: YOU FELT PERSONALLY TARGETED.

>> I WAS PERSONALLY TARGETED.

ONE OF A HANDFUL'S REPUBLICANS COMMITTING THE CARDINAL SIN AGAINST THE PRESIDENT-ELECT, SAYING THE ELECTION WASN'T STOLING ALL THAT ANGER AND HATE COMES AT PEOPLE LIKE ME.

>>> IN JOINING US NOW TO TALK ABOUT THE FILM ARE THE FILM'S EXECUTIVE PRODUCER DANNA ROBERSON WHO ALSO SERVES AS EXEC TIB PRODUCER FOR PBS NEW HOUR WEEKEND AND EXCLAIMED HISTORIAN AND AMERICAN STUDIES AT GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY AND WINNER OF THE 2021 PULITZER PRIZE IN HISTORY.

THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOINING US.

WELCOME.

>> THANK YOU.

WELCOME.

>> SO LET ME START AND DANA WITH YOU, IF I MIGHT.

IT'S A MARVELOUS FILM.

IT'S INFORMATIVE, IT'S PROVOCATIVE.

IT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WE'VE SEEN LEADING INTO THIS ANNIVERSARY OF JANUARY 6th IN THE SENSE THAT IT DOESN'T FOCUS JUST ON THAT EVENT.

CERTAINLY TALKS ABOUT THAT EVENT, BUT AS I SAID IN THE INTRODUCTION, IT LOOKS BACK IN HISTORY AT THE FOUNDING OF THIS GREAT EXPERIMENT, THIS DEMOCRACY OF OURS, AND EVEN IN THE END LOOKS FORWARD WITH WHERE WE'RE GOING TO END UP.

WHY DID YOU DECIDE TO DO IT, TO HAVE THAT STRUCTURE?

>> WELL, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, TWO HOURS IS A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT PERIOD OF TIME TO COVER, AND I THINK AS WE ALL HAVE BY NOW STARTING BEGINNING OF THIS WEEK SEEN ALL OF THIS NEWS LEADING UP TO THE JANUARY 6th EVENTS, THE ANNIVERSARY, WE'RE SORT OF INUNDATED A LITTLE WITH THOSE IMAGES OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND I SORT OF VERY INTENTIONALLY WANTED TO START IN A DIFFERENT PLACE, BEFORE WE GET THERE.

I MEAN, WE CERTAINLY GET THERE IN A COUPLE OF PLACES IN THE FILM, BUT I WANTED TO START LOOKING BACK AT HISTORY AND SORT OF THINKING ABOUT THE ORIGINS OF OUR DEMOCRACY.

THE GREAT EXPERIMENT, AS YOU CALL IT, AND HOW THAT ALL STARTED.

THERE WERE FITS AND STARTS ALL ALONG THE WAY.

I LIKE TO SAY EBBS AND FLOWS BUT IT'S ACTUALLY FITS AND STARTS, TOO, FROM THE VERY BEGINNING.

THAT STARTED WITH LOOKING AT, YOU KNOW -- WE ACTUALLY START WITH OTHER PLACES WHERE REVOLUTIONS HAPPENED.

NOT, WE'RE NOT THE ONLY ONES.

THIS IS NOT JUST IN OUR COUNTRY.

SO WE SEE A LITTLE HISTORY AROUND THE WORLD AND THEIR STRUGGLES AND SUCCESSES WITH DEMOCRACY.

THEN WE COME INTO AMERICAN HISTORY, WHICH IS RICH WITH A LOT OF INFORMATION AND I SORT OF WANTED TO DO THAT SECOND BECAUSE I THINK THE REST OF THE FILM SORT OF TAKES OFF FROM WHAT HAS HAPPENED HERE IN THIS COUNTRY, AND WHAT WE CAN DO, AS YOU SAID, MOVING FORWARD.

SO THAT WAS SORT OF INTENTION IN SOME WAYS.

I THINK IT WORKS.

WE'LL SEE.

>> ONE OF THE DIFFICULTIES IN PUTTING THE DOCUMENT TOGETHER, I HAD GOOD FORTUNE TO EXECUTIVE PRODUCE A COUPLE AND REALIZED HOW DIFFICULT THEY ARE.

BUT ONE OF THE DIFFICULTIES IS CREATING THE VOICES, THE CAST, IF YOU WILL, AND IN THIS FILM, YOU HAVE VOICES THAT SPAN THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM.

HOW DID YOU DECIDE WHICH VOICES AND INCLUDING DR. CHAPMAN, MARVELOUS VOICE IN THIS FILM, AND GET TO YOU IN A SECOND HERE, BUT HOW DID YOU DECIDE, THEN, WHICH VOICES YOU WOULD UTILIZED?

>> WE HAD A VERY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME TO PULL THIS OFF.

I ACTUALLY COMPOSED SIX TO SEVEN DIFFERENT TEAMS OF PRODUCERS.

PRODUCING TEAMS FROM ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

ONE IN TEXAS.

YOU'LL SEE THAT IN THE STORY.

ONE, A COUPLE WERE IN BOSTON, I THINK, OR THE D.C. AREA.

SOME HERE IN NEW YORK.

ONE IN THE NETHERLANDS.

SO WE REALLY SORT OF SPREAD OUT AND GOT EACH OF THEM INDIVIDUALLY TO HELP COMPILE THESE VOICES.

I THINK IN TOTAL THERE'S SOMETHING LIKE 45 INTERVIEWS THAT WERE DONE.

YOU KNOW, BECAUSE IT'S SORT OF THE THING THAT HAPPENED AS YOU START GETTING ONE VOICE, THEN THE WORD SPREADS, AND THEN THEY TELL THEIR FRIEND, HEY, SUCH AND SUCH IS DOING THIS DOCUMENTARY.

YOU SHOULD TALK TO THEM, TOO.

YOU WIND UP WITH A REALLY WEALTH OF VOICES AND THE DIFFICULTIES WITH THAT IS THEN YOU HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHO TO PUT IN, HOW TO HAVE PEOPLE SAYING THINGS THAT ARE DIFFERENT ENOUGH TO DISTINGUISH THEM FROM EACH OTHER BUT REALLY IT WAS THE TEAM WHO HELPED PULL ALL OF THIS TOGETHER SORT OF INDIVIDUALLY AND COLLECTIVELY, AND WE SHARED INTERVIEWS.

SOMEONE WOULD SAY, OH, HERE'S MARSHA'S INTERVIEW.

HERE'S THE TRANSCRIPT.

ANYBODY WANT TO USE SOME OF HER FOR THEIR PIECE?

THEREFORE IT LOOKS LIKE IT WAS ALL SORT OF DONE AS WHOLE BUT REALLY IS WAS THE TEAMS WORKING TOGETHER AND COLLABORATING AND PULLING ALL OF THOSE VOICES TOGETHER.

>> MARSHA, TALK ABOUT YOUR ROLE.

SOME OF THE THINGS YOU HAVE TO SAY IN THE FILM, AND YOU PROVIDE, AS -- YOU'RE A HISTORIAN.

YOU PROVIDE A SENSE OF HISTORY, A SENSE OF PERSPECTIVE.

YOU PROVIDE HISTORY THAT I THINK WILL SURPRISE IN THIS FILM PROVIDES HISTORY THAT I WILL WILL SURPRISE MANY PEOPLE THAT THEY DON'T KNOW ABOUT.

BUT LET ME ASK ABOUT SOME OF THE THINGS THAT YOU HAVE TALKED ABOUT.

ONE EARLY ON YOU TALK ABOUT THAT THE, THE NEED FOR SCRUTINY, OR A CONTINUING SCRUTINY OF OUR DEMOCRACY, AS WE SAID, YOU CAN STILL SAY, STILL A LATENT EXPERIMENT, IF YOU WILL, AND ONE OF THE QUOTES, EXPLAIN IT TO US.

IN ONE OF THEM YOU SAY HERE, YOUR WORDS, IF WE BELIEVE DEMOCRACY IS REAL, THEN DEMOCRACY SHOULD ALWAYS BE ON THE CHOPPING BLOCK.

YOU GO ON TO EXPLAIN WHAT THAT MEANS.

GIVE US A QUICK EXPLANATION OF WHAT YOU MEANT BY THAT.

>> WELL, I THINK THAT THIS FILM REALLY EXAMINES A NUANCED APPROACH OF UNDERSTANDING GOVERNANCE.

RIGHT?

THAT WE DON'T WHOLEHEARTEDLY SAY WE ARE DEMOCRACY, THEREFORE THE, THE BLUEPRINT OF THE CONSTITUTION, OUR PROTOCOLS ANSWER ALL OF OUR QUESTIONS.

RATHER WE SAY, IN ORDER TO REALLY EMPHASIZE A DEMOCRATIC PROCESS, WHAT DOES THIS REQUIRE EACH OF US AND WHAT DOES THIS REQUIRE US TO QUESTION?

BECAUSE I THINK THAT WHEN WE RELY ON FRAMEWORKS LIKE ONE PERSON, ONE VOTE, IT CAN SEEM LIKE AN EASY ANSWER, BUT WE HAVE RESTRICTIONS ON AGE ON WHO CAN VOTE.

AROUND CITIZENSHIP, ACCESS TO THE VOTE HAS BECOME SUCH AN IMPORTANT ISSUE OVER THE PAST TWO DECADES AS WE SEE SUPPRESSED VOTERS AND I THINK WHICH I SAY ALWAYS ON THE CHOPPING BLOCK, WE SHOULD ALWAYS ASK OURSELVES, HOUR IMPORTANT IT THE DEMOCRATIC IDEAL TO US AND WHAT ARE WE WILLING TO RELINQUISH AND WILLING TO RECONSIDER IN ORDER TO KEEP IT ALIVE?

I THINK THE PAST FEW YEARS HAVE FORCED PEOPLE TO REALLY CONSIDER THAT QUESTION.

DOES THE IDEA OF DEMOCRACY ACTUALLY PRACTICALLY HELP US SOLVE THE CHALLENGES THAT WE FACE EVERY DAY?

>> WHEN YOU LOOK BACK AND YOU THOUGHT ABOUT THE IDEA OF DEMOCRACY AND, AGAIN, AS A HISTORIAN, YOU KNOW THINK, BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE, A LOT OF US -- WE TEND TO THINK THE FOUNDERS HAD THIS MAGNIFICENT IDEA OF DEMOCRACY THAT'S GOING TO LOOK LIKE IT LOOKS LIKE TODAY, AND EVERY PERSON HAVING A VOTE.

AND -- AND POLITICAL PARTIES, YOU KNOW, BRINGING ISSUES TO THE FOREFRONT THROUGH DEBATE.

IS THAT ACCURATE, MARSHA?

>> I MEAN, ABSOLUTELY NOT.

THE FOUNDERS WERE LIKE US.

THEY WERE MOTIVATED BY SELF-INTEREST.

THEY HAD OTHER KIND OF ENTITIES THAT THEY CONSIDERED IN THEIR DISCUSSIONS OF WHAT A NATION SHOULD BE.

WHETHER IT BE THE -- THE ENVELOPING SYSTEM OF SLAVERY THAT CONTINUED TO GROW IN THE NATION.

WHETHER IT BE THEIR POSITION ON RELATIONSHIPS WITH FOREIGN ENTITIES.

THEIR PERSPECTIVE ON THE SUBJECT OF COLONIALISM AND THE AMASSING OF NATURAL RESOURCES TO FUEL THE NATION.

I MEAN YOU KNOW, THIS IDEA THAT SPECIAL INTERESTS LOBBYING, FAKE NEWS, MISINFORMATION IS AN INVENTION OF OUR ERA IS IGNORING THE FACT THAT THE FOUNDERS CONTENDED WITH THESE SAME ISSUES MAYBE ON A DIFFERENT SCALE AND MAYBE WITH A DIFFERENT FRAMEWORK, BUT THEY WERE ALSO TRYING TO RECONCILE WHAT WE RECONCILE TODAY.

THE IDEALISM OF A NATION THAT WORKS FOR ALL PEOPLE AND REALITIES PEOPLE ARE TETHERED TO, THEIR OWN BIASES, PREJUDICES AND VIEWPOINTS ON WHAT A SUCCESSFUL DEMOCRACY LOOKS LIKE.

I THINK THAT'S OKAY.

YOU KNOW, WE -- >> WHY DO YOU SAY THAT?

BECAUSE IT SOUNDS -- SOUNDS A LITTLE FRIGHTENING?

>> WELL -- >> WHY DO YOU THINK IT'S OKAY?

>> IT'S OKAY, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, OUR EXISTENTIAL HEALTH AND OUR EGO IS NOT PREDICATED ON THE PERFECTION OF THE FOUNDERS OR THE PERFECTION OF THIS ENTERPRISE.

I THINK THAT WE ARE IMMERSED IN A CULTURE WAR ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT WE SHOULD REVERE FOUNDERS RATHER THAN WHETHER WE SHOULD REALLY REVERE THE UNIVERSAL RIGHTS AND RESPECTABLE PEOPLE, AND I THINK THAT HAVING THESE NUANCE AND THOUGHTFUL CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THE FOUNDING OF THE NATION FOR GOOD AND FOR BAD HELPS US HAVE A MATURE APPROACH TO HOW WE ELECT LEADERS, HOW WE PARTICIPATE IN THE DEMOCRACY.

WHETHER WE BELIEVE IN IT OR NOT.

SO I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW -- THIS IS -- THIS IS THE WORLD WE LIVE IN, AND THIS IS WHY HISTORY HAS TO BE AS ROBUST AND AS HONEST AS POSSIBLE, BECAUSE THESE FANTASIES OF THE FOUNDERS I THINK IMPERILLED A LOT OF OUR THINKING ABOUT MAKING CHANGE AND I THINK IT ALSO PLAYED A ROLE IN GALVANIZING THE FORCES THAT ATTACKED THE CAPITOL.

>> TALKING ABOUT REVERING THE FOUNDERS AND THE FALLACIES, THE FAMOUS, WE THE PEOPLE.

RIGHT?

DID THE FOUNDERS TRUST THE PEOPLE?

>> ABSOLUTELY NOT.

[ LAUGHTER ] I MEAN -- BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IN THE SAME WAYS WE DON'T TRUST THE PEOPLE.

RIGHT?

IN THE SAME WAYS THAT WE HAVE A SOCIETY THAT IS BIASED AGAINST THOSE WHO ARE INCARCERATED.

THAT OFTEN IGNORES THE MOST VULNERABLE BECAUSE THEY ARE POOR OR BECAUSE THEY ARE CHILDREN, OR BECAUSE THEY HAVE A MENTAL ILLNESS OR THEY HAVE A DISABILITY.

I MEAN, THESE PEOPLE WERE NOT THAT DIFFERENT THAN US.

BUT IN THE VEIN OF PEOPLE WHO ARE FLAWED CAN STILL HAVE EXCELLENT IDEAS, THAT THEY MAY NOT HAVE THE CAPACITY TO EXECUTE, WE'RE IN THE SAME BOAT.

SO I THINK THAT THIS IS WHAT THIS EXPLORATION DOES.

IT TELLS US THAT JANUARY 6th WAS NOT AN ANOMALY, AND WE ALSO HAVE THE CAPACITY TO MAKE SURE IT NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN.

>> THERE'S SO MUCH WE CAN TALK ABOUT HERE.

IT'S SLIGHTLY LESS THAN A TWO-HOUR FILM.

THERE ARE SO MANY ISSUES THAT YOU FOCUS ON HERE.

I WAS STRUCK BY ONE OF THE THEMES THAT SORT OF FLOWS THROUGH THIS AND THAT'S THE NOTION, THE TERM IS BACK SLIDING DEMOCRACIES.

THE IDEA THAT ONE OF YOUR VOICES ONE OF YOUR GUESTS, TALKS ABOUT A KNEW ENTRY ON THE LIST OF BACK SLIDING DEMOCRACIES AROUND THE WORLD THAT HAPPENS TO BE THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

TALK A LITTLE ABOUT THAT CONCEPT OF BACK SLIDING DEMOCRACIES.

>> YEAH.

I MEAN, WELL THAT REPORT, THAT WAS A REPORT THAT CAME OUT BY A EUROPEAN THINK TANK THAT EVERY YEAR PUTS OUT A LIST OF COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD THAT ARE BACK SLIDING OR MOVING FORWARD, AND FOR THE FIRST TIME THE UNITED STATES APPEARED ON THAT LIST.

SO THAT ACTUALLY SORT OF BECAME OUR LED.

TO GET US INTO IT.

A COUPLE OF OUR GUESTS MENTIONED ACTUALLY BACK SLIDING'S I THINK IT'S SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE IT'S THE FIRST TIME THE UNITED STATES APPEARED ON A LIST LIKE THAT.

I THINK IT'S SIGNIFICANT, BECAUSE WE HAVE ALWAYS HELD OURSELVES, MAYBE SELFISHLY, TO A STANDARD THAT WE ARE SORT OF THE PINNACLE OF DEMOCRACY, OR ONE OF THE PINNACLES OF DEMOCRACY GLOBALLY.

AND FOR US TO BE ON THAT LIST, AND GIVEN SORT OF LOOKING AT THE HISTORY AND HOW WE'VE TRIED TO OVERCOME THESE THINGS TO BE BACK SLIDING IS, SHOULD BE ALARMING TO EVERYONE.

I THINK.

WHO LOVES THIS COUNTRY.

YOU KNOW, IN THE DOCUMENTARY WE TALK A LOT ABOUT SORT OF PROGRESS AND BACKLASH.

YOU KNOW?

SO EVERY TIME THERE WAS PROGRESS ON SOMETHING, OR FORWARD MOVEMENT TLSHS WAS A BACKLASH TO IT.

I THINK I WAS TALKING WITH ONE OF THE GUESTS WHO'S IN THE DOCUMENTARY, AND THEY SAID, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE THREE GREAT SORT OF BACKLASHES IN OUR COUNTRY.

ONE WAS RECONSTRUCTION.

ONE WAS CIVIL RIGHTS/VOTING RIGHTS, AND THE THIRD WAS THE ELECTION OF BARACK OBAMA.

YOU KNOW?

AND THEY'RE ALL SORT OF INEXTRICABLY TIED TO RACE, AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THE COUNTRY, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO CONTEND WITH IF WE WANT TO CONTINUE TO MAKE PROGRESS, THIS COUNTRY'S ONLY BECOMING MORE DIVERSE.

MORE BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE IN POSITIONS OF POWER.

AND TAKING, RUNNING THIS COUNTRY IN DIFFERENT WAYS.

THAT IS SOMETHING WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO START TO RECKON WITH, IF WE WANT TO MOVE FORWARD AND GET OFF THAT LIST, BECAUSE WE WILL CONTINUE TO BACK SLIDE IF WE CONTINUE TO PUSH BACK AGAINST THAT PROGRESS.

>> MARSHA, LET ME SHIFT OUR FOCUS AS THE FILM SDOES A LITTL NOW TO JANUARY 6th, AND WHEN IT HAPPENED THERE WAS THIS SENSE, THERE WERE A NUMBER OF EMOTIONS THAT WERE GENERATED, BUT ONE OF THEM WAS THE SENSE AMONGST PEOPLE, AND EVEN HEARD IT IN THE REPORTING, THAT HERE'S SOMETHING THAT HAS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE.

TO OUR NATION.

BUT THE FILM MAKES IT CLEAR TO US THAT THAT'S NOT TRUE EITHER.

CORRECT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THERE HAVE BEEN NUMBERS OF ATTACKS ON THE NATION'S CAPITOL FROM, YOU KNOW, THE AREA, FROM THE ERA OF THE EARLY FOUNDERS, THE CIVIL WAR TO THE 1960s.

ALL WITH A DIFFERENT KIND OF POLITICAL TONE.

I THINK THAT WHAT MADE THIS SEEM SO APPALLING AND UNBELIEVABLE IS THAT THE CONSPIRACIES OF THE PAST, I THINK, HAVE BEEN ABLE TO HIDE.

I THINK THE CONSPIRACY FOR JANUARY 6th ALL OF THE WARNING SIGNS WERE THERE.

IN FULL VIEW ON SOME NEWS CHANNELS, ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

IT'S A STRANGE THING WHERE RARELY DO WE SEE AN ATTACK LIKE THAT BE NOT AS MUCH OF A SURPRISE AS WE IMAGINED, AND THOSE ATTACKS IN THE PAST WERE NEVER HEADED BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

>> SO, AND WE HEAR VOICES IN THE FILM SAYING, WE SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN SURPRISED, THAT JANUARY 6th HAPPENED.

DOES THAT MEAN WE SHOULD NOT BE SURPRISED THAT THERE MIGHT BE MORE JANUARY 6ths IN OUR NEAR FUTURE, MARCH THAT?

>> WELL, I THINK WE SHOULD -- I THINK IT'S OKAY TO BE SURPRISED, BECAUSE SOMETIMES SURPRISE IS JUST A REACTION TO, KNOW, THE SADNESS AND THE FEELINGS OF BEING DEEPLY OVERWHELMED BY AN EVENT.

I THINK WHAT WE SHOULD BE IS SERIOUS ABOUT THE, ABOUT NOT IGNORING THE RHETORIC.

NOT DISMISSING THE CONSPIRACIES.

NOT SAYING, THIS IS JUST FOR RATINGS, OR THIS IS JUST TALK.

I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, DURING THE TRUMP YEARS IN AMERICA, THE GOAL POSTS OR LINES OF DECENCY EXPLODED OVER AND OBSERVER AGAIN IS.

NO ONE WOULD REALLY DO THIS.

THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES WOULD NEVER TREAT THE WITHOUT LIKE THIS.

FROM MY PERSPECTIVE I NEVER BELIEVED THAT THE FACTION OF AMERICANS WHO CALL THEMSELVES PATRIOTS WHO TALKED HOW MUCH THEY LOVED THE COUNTRY WOULD EVER SUBMIT THE KIND OF CHAOS THAT WAS UNLEASHED.

RIGHT?

NOR DID I EVER BELIEVE THAT, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD SACRIFICE HUMAN LIVES IN THE REACTION TO THE COVID CRISIS IN THE WAYS THAT WE DID.

EVEN I AS A HISTORIAN WAS SURPRISED BY SOME OF THESE ACTIONS, BUT ALL IS IS TO SAY I THINK WE HAVE TO TAKE THESE THINGS SERIOUSLY.

WE HAVE TO REALLY CONFRONT AND INTERROGATE THIS TYPE OF IDEOLOGY, BECAUSE IT DOES BECOME BEHAVIOR.

IT IS NOT JUST CHATTER.

IT BECOMES REAL, AND IT ANIMATES PEOPLE, AND IT CAN MOTIVATE PEOPLE TO DO THINGS THAT YOU COULD HAVE, COULD NEVER IMAGINE THEM TO DO, BECAUSE I THINK WE OFTEN BELIEVE THAT THIS TYPE OF REBELLIOUS ACTIVITIES ARE ONLY AMONG THE DISENFRANCHISED, PEOPLE WITH NOTHING TO LOSE.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE PROFILE OF THE PEOPLE WHO PARTICIPATED IN THE INSURRECTION, THEY ARE PEOPLE LIKE ME WITH MORTGAGES, KIDS, JOBS TO GO TO AND RESPONSIBILITIES.

IT'S NOT PEOPLE WHO ARE SO DESPERATE, BUT RATHER PEOPLE WHO ARE SO -- YOU KNOW, SO, SO ENTO ENTITLED TO A VISION OF A NATION THEY'RE WILLING TO DO THESE TYPE OF THINGS.

>> IT'S INTERESTING.

OFTEN WHEN CONFRONTED WITH THESE CRISES THING OF TERMS OF "US VERSUS THEM."

IT'S THEM THAT WOULD DO US, NOT US THAT COULD DO THAT.

SOUNDS LIKE, MARSHA YOU YOU'RE SAYING, THERE WERE A LOT OF "USs" WITHIN THIS?

>> I MEAN, THIS IDEA THAT DONALD TRUMP WAS ABLE TO MANIPULATE PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T GO TO THE COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES, THAT WE ATTENDED OR TEACH AT, THAT THESE WERE PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T KNOW BETTER, WHO HAD NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT IDEAS ABOUT VOTING AGAINST OR FORETHEIR SELF-INTEREST.

THERE'S A, A KIND OF ELITIST AND MYOPIC VIEW THAT ONLY PEOPLE WHO ARE IN CERTAIN POSITIONS ARE SUSCEPTIBLE TO THIS TYPE OF IDEOL IDEOLOGICAL, YOU KNOW -- THIS TYPE OF IDEOLOGICAL INFLUENCE, BUT WHAT'S INTERESTING WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF THE FORCES IN THIS COUNTRY THAT HAVE TRIED TO UNDERMINE DEMOCRACY, THEY COME FROM ALL ENDS OF THE SPECTRUM.

AND I THINK THAT THIS IS AN IMPORTANT MOMENT TO REMEMBER THAT EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US HAS PROXIMITY TO SOMEONE WHO COULD ONE DAY WAKE UP AND SAY WHAT I'M GOING TO DO, STORM THE CAPITOL.

IT ISN'T JUST ABOUT STORMING A BUILDING.

IT'S REALLY ABOUT TRAUMATIZING AND HARMING SO MANY PEOPLE.

YOU KNOW, THE LAST THING I'LL SAY IS SOMEONE WHO TEACHES AT GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY, A SCHOOL WHERE A LOT OF YOUNG PEOPLE COME BECAUSE THEY WANT TO GO INTO PUBLIC SERVICE ARE PROBABLY THE LAST FACTION OF YOUNG TRUE BELIEVERS.

I WANT TO GO INTO GOVERNMENT.

I WANT TO RUN FOR OFFICE.

A GRADUATE, JUST DECLARED VICTORY IN GEORGIA THE DAY BEFORE.

THINK ABOUT WHAT THIS MEANS FOR A GENERATION OF YOUNG PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO SERB THEIR COUNTRY, THE FACT THEY WENT TO WORK SOMEONE THREATENED TO KILL THEM, HIDING IN OFFICES WITH BOSSES AND SUPERVISORS FOR HOURS PRAYING THAT THEIR LIVES WOULD BE SPARED?

THIS IS NO SMALL THING.

SO THE OBFUSCATION ABOUT ACCOUNTABILITY OF THIS EVENT ISN'T JUST ABOUT TRUMP'S MACHINE.

IT'S ABOUT CONTENDING WITH WHAT WE HAVE DONE TO PEOPLE WHO WANTED TO DO SOMETHING THAT WE OFTEN SAY IS INCREDIBLY NOBLE.

>> THERE IS, THERE IS SO MUCH OF THIS, AS I MENTIONED BEFORE.

I WISH WE COULD TALK FOR HOURS ABOUT IT.

THERE'S ONE POINT THAT IS MADE.

LEAVE FOLKS TO WATCH THIS.

INTERESTINGLY, A QUOTE COMING FROM THE PROPAGANDA MINISTER FOR THE NAZI PARTY TALKING ABOUT DEMOCRACY PROVIDES THE MEANS FOR ITS ENEMIES TO DESTROY IT.

THE THEIR VINGS WE CHERISH, FREEDOM OF SPEECH, FREEDOM OF ASSEMBLY, AND LEAVE THAT, AGAIN, FOR VIEWERS, BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO TALK ABOUT IT HERE, BUT I'VE GOT ABOUT, OH, ABOUT THREE MINUTES LEFT HERE.

SO I WANT TO ASK EACH OF YOU THE SAME QUESTION.

AND THAT IS, AND DANA, I'LL START WITH YOU NAP IS, GIVEN WHAT YOU INVESTED IN THIS FILM AND PROVIDED IN THIS FILM, DO YOU WALK AWAY AFTER HAVING DONE THIS FILM FEARFUL OF WHERE WE ARE HEADING AS THIS EXPERIMENT IN DEMOCRACY?

OR ARE YOU HOPEFUL?

>> I GUESSES I COULD SAY I'M FEARFULLY OPTIMISTIC, MAYBE.

>> ALL RIGHT.

>> I WANT TO BE HOPEFUL.

I AM AN OPTIMIST.

I THINK, AS I'VE, YOU KNOW, WE'VE SEEN IN THIS FILM AND IN HISTORY, THERE ARE THESE EBBS AND FLOWS.

IN IS PROGRESS, THERE IS BACKLASH.

THEN IN THE BACKLASH, IT FORCES PEOPLE TO THINK MORE CAREFULLY ABOUT DEMOCRACIENED HOW WE CAN TRY TO MAKE IT BETTER.

I THINK IN THIS PAST YEAR THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF THOSE CONVERSATIONS GOING ON.

YOU KNOW?

HOW CAN WE MAKE IT SO THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN?

PART OF THE DOCUMENTARY TALKS ABOUT A MORE ROBUST EDUCATION IN KIV CIVICS IN MIDDLE SCHOOL AND HIGH SCHOOL WHICH WE'RE LACKING.

HOW TO ENGAGE THE NEXT GENERATION TO WORK HARDER TO PRESERVE DEMOCRACY?

REALLY.

YOU KNOW?

SO I'M HOPEFUL, BUT I'M ALSO A LITTLE FEARFUL AS WELL, BECAUSE I ALSO KNOW SOMETIMES BACKLASHES CAN LAST A WHILE, AND MAYBE A YEAR ISN'T LONG ENOUGH?

I DON'T KNOW.

>> YEAH.

MARSHA, A MINUTE AND A HALF.

YOUR THOUGHTS?

FEARFUL, HOPEFUL?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT I'M LEARNING.

I THINK THAT I DON'T KNOW WHICH POSITION I TAKE.

I DO KNOW I'M LEARNING A LOT ABOUT THE FRAGILITY OF DEMOCRACY BUT AT THE INCREDIBLE STRENGTH OF PEOPLE.

IT IS INCREDIBLE TO SEE THAT EVEN AFTER THE ATTACK ON THE CAPITOL PEOPLE GOT THEMSELVES TOGETHER AND WENT TO WORK THE NEXT DAY.

I HAD A MEETING WITH HILL STAFFERS THE NEXT DAY AND I THOUGHT, WE DON'T HAVE TO DO THIS MEETING.

THEY SAID, NO, NO, NO.

E WERE WANT TO GET BACK TO IT.

THERE'S AN INCREDIBLE CAPACITY IN ALL OF US, AND I THINK THAT THE THING I AM MOST GRATEFUL FOR YOU ARE PRODUCTIONS LIKE THIS.

THERE ARE A NUMBER OF SCHOOLS TEACHERS WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO TALK ABOUT JANUARY 6th.

I'M SO GLAD THAT THERE IS THIS DOCUMENTARY PROJECT AND THERE'S THIS COMMITMENT SO THAT IN FAMILIES AND IN COMMUNITIES AND IN SCHOOLS THAT ARE MAKING THAT CHOICE, THAT THIS WILL NOT BE FORGOTTEN.

THAT NO ONE CAN SAY, YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T KNOW THIS HAPPENED THAT WE'RE SAYING THIS HAPPENED AND IT MATTERS.

>> AND THAT DEFENSE, "I DIDN'T KNOW" IT'S ANATHEMA TO ANYTHING INCLUDING THIS.

DOCTOR, AND DANA, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

AS I SAID, A MARVELOUS FILM AND APPRECIATE YOU SPENDING TIME WITH US TODAY.

THANK YOU.

FOR ALL OF YOU, INFORMATION HOW TO WATCH "PRESERVING DEMOCRACY" CHECK IN WITH US AT METROFOCUS.ORG.

ALL OF YOU STAY SAFE.

HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.

>>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION.

AND BY -- JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER, JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD, CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY, JUDY AND JOSH WESTON, DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN FOUNDATION,