♪ >>> THIS IS "METROFOCUS" WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

"METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION.

AND BY -- >>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO THE "METROFOCUS" FRONT PAGE FORECAST.

I'M JENNA FLANAGAN.

IN THIS WEEK'S LOOK AHEAD AT THE MAJOR HEADLINES, NEW YORK'S MAYOR FACES A MAJOR TEST AFTER A WOMAN IS PUSHED TO HER DEATH IN THE TIMES SQUARE SUBWAY STATION.

WHAT WE'RE LEARNING ABOUT THE VICTIM, HER ATTACKER AND THE CASE THAT'S DRIVING FEAR AMONG MANY NEW YORKERS.

WE'LL ALSO DISCUSS MANHATTAN D.A.

ALVIN BRAGG'S RESPONSE TO THE BLOWBACK AFTER UNVEIL BE MAJOR CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORMS INCLUDING NOT CHARGING SOME LOW-LEVEL OFFENSES.

PLUS, NEW YORK CITY SCHOOLS EXPLORE THE POSSIBLE EXPANSION OF A REMOTE LEARNING OPTION AS ATTENDANCE CONCERNS LINGER.

AND GOVERNOR KATHY HOCHUL REVEALS HER BUDGET PLANS AS MAYOR de BLASIO ANNOUNCES HE'S NOT RUNNING FOR THE STATE'S HIGHEST OFFICE.

FOR THEIR TAKE ON THESE STORIES AND WHAT ELSE COULD DRIVE NEWS THIS WEEK, WE WELCOME OUR PANEL OF EXPERTS.

UP FIX WE WB L. JOY WILLIAMS, A POLITICAL STRATEGIST WORKED WITH SOME OF THE BIGGEST NAMES IN NEW YORK POLITICS.

SHE'S ALSO HOST OF THE WEEKLY SUNDAY CIVICS PODCAST AND RADIO SHOW L. JOY, WELCOME BACK TO "METROFOCUS."

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

>> WE ALSO WOULD LIKE TO WELCOME BACK BEN MAX.

BEN, OF COURSE, EXECUTIVE EDITOR OF GOTHAM GIZETTE, ONLINE WATCHDOG PUBLICATION AND HOST OF A PODCAST ON NEW YORK POLITICS.

BEN, ALWAYS GREAT TO HAVE YOU ON THE SHOW.

>> THANKS, JENNA.

GOOD TO BE HERE.

>> AND WE WELCOME, FIRST TIME, RAFAEL MANGU A MANGUEL.

POLICING SAFETIES A THE NEW YORK-BASED THINK TANK AND CONTRIBUTOR EDITOR FOR "CITY JOURNAL: THE URBAN POLICY MAGAZINE."

GREAT TO WELCOME YOU TO "METROFOCUS."

>> SO GREAT TO BE HERE.

THANK YOU.

>> ALL RIGHT, WITHOUT FURTHER A ADO, LET'S START OFF WITH THE HORRIFIC ATTACK I MENTIONED TOP OF THE INTRO.

BEN WHAT DO WE KNOW SO FAR ABOUT WHAT TOOK PLACE?

>> WELL, WE'RE STILL WAITING FOR MORE INFORMATION FROM THE NYPD, OF COURSE, AND OTHER OFFICIALS, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE THIS WAS SORT OF A RANDOM ATTACK BY A MENTALLY UNWELL INDIVIDUAL WHO HAD A LONG HISTORY OF CHALLENGES WITH MENTAL ILLNESSES AND IN AND OUT OF THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.

WE'VE GOT SOME INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT NYPD DEPLOYMENT LOOKED LIKE AT THE STATION, AND THE PROMISES FROM MAYOR ADAMS TO ENHANCE SUBWAY POLICING AFTER SUBWAY POLICING HAS BEEN INCREASED UNDER MAYOR de BLASIO TOWARDS END OF HIS TERM.

SO, YOU KNOW, THE BIGGEST QUESTIONS, I THINK, REMAINING ARE, SORT OF ON THE MICROLEVEL ABOUT POLICING IN THE SUBWAY AND WHEN THERE ARE OFFICERS IN THE STATION AND EVEN ON THE PLATFORM WHAT WERE THEY DOING, AND, YOU KNOW, WHY SOMEONE ACTING ERRATICALLY WASN'T DEALT WITH MORE QUICKLY, BUT ALSO ON THE SORT OF MACRO LEVEL, NOT ONLY POLICING IN THE SUBWAY, ALSO WHAT OTHER KINDS OF RESOURCES AND WORKERS ARE BEING DEPLOYED, AND HOW DOES NEW YORK GET A BETTER HANDLE ON PEOPLE WHO ARE DEALING WITH SEVERE MENTAL ILLNESS AND POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS, GETTING TREATMENT AND SERVICES AND NOT POSING A DANGER TO THEMSELVES AND OTHERS.

>> OF COURSE.

NOW, L. JOY, AN ISSUE THAT HAS COME UP OVER AND OVER AGAIN, AS THERE HAVE BEEN RISING CONCERNS AMONGST A LOT OF NEW YORKERS IN TERMS OF THE MENTALLY ILL, HOW THEY'RE BEING TREATED.

ARE THEY PERHAPS DANGEROUS TO SOCIETY, ET CETERA.

I WONDER, WHAT ARE THE CONCERNS FROM THIS CASE THAT YOU WOULD TAKE AWAY FROM?

>> WELL, FIRST I WANT TO SAY, MY HEART IS WITH THE FAMILY OF THE VICTIM AT THIS POINT, WHO HAD THEIR OWN HEALING AND THEIR OWN JUSTICE THAT THEY WILL BE SEEKING FOR THIS CASE, BUT JUST TO GO TO THE CRIMINALIZATION AS HAS BEEN MENTIONED.

YOU KNOW, OUR RESPONSE IN KNOWING THAT SOMEONE IS, THAT THERE ARE MANY WHO ARE EXPERIENCING MENTAL HEALTH CHALLENGES IN THIS CITY, AND WE HAVE TRIED OVER AND OVER AGAIN, THE CRIMINALIZING OF THAT.

RIGHT?

FOCUSING ON MORE POLICING, LOCKING PEOPLE UP, RATHER THAN ADDRESSING SOME OF THE ROOT CAUSES THAT CAN ALSO PREVENT TRAGEDIES LIKE THIS FROM HAPPENING, AND MAKING SURE THAT THE PERSON WHO WAS EXPERIENCING THESE CHALLENGES IS GETTING THE SUPPORT AND RESOURCES THAT THEY NEED.

WE'VE TRIED OVER AND OVER AGAIN, JUST THROW POLICE THERE.

RIGHT?

INSTEAD OF THROWING RESOURCES THAT CAN HELP THE PEOPLE WHO ARE SUFFERING AT THIS CURRENT TIME, AND, YOU KNOW, I FEEL THAT USING THESE CASES DOES A DISSERVICE WHEN THESE CASES ARE USED AS, THIS IS THE REASON WHY WE NEED MORE CRIMINALIZATION, MORE POLICING, MORE, YOU KNOW -- MORE RESPONSIVE OF BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE RATHER THAN INVOKING RESOURCES PROVEN TO ADDRESS THESE ISSUES AND PREVENT TRAGEDIES LIKE THIS FROM HAPPENING.

SO IT'S LIKE A CIRCULAR ARGUMENT OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

WHEN WE START TO DISMANTLE CRIMINALIZATION AND REALLY GET PEOPLE THE HELP AND SERVICES THEY NEED, HERE COME THE STORIES THAT ARE PRESENTED TO US AND PRESENTED TO US IN A FRAME OF FEAR, RIGHT?

THAT IF WE DON'T, YOU KNOW, CRIMINALIZE, IF WE DON'T THROW MORE POLICE ON EPIC SITUATIONS THIS IS WHERE WE'RE GOING TO END UP.

SO THAT'S WHAT REALLY DISTURBS ME AND HAS ME ON GUARD IN THIS SITUATION.

>> OF COURSE, RAFAEL, WITH YOUR EXPERIENCE WORKING, OF COURSE, ON POLICING AND PUBLIC SAFETY, WHERE DO YOU SEE THIS, AGAIN, AS L. JOY SO POINTEDLY POINTED OUSHGS PEOPLE MIGHT SEE AS A LRGER TREND?

>> IT IS PART OF A LARGER TREND.

NOT A TREND REPRESENT IRAN OF THE EVERYDAY EXPERIENCES OF PEOPLE ON THE SUBWAY BUT THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME THIS HAPPENED OR THE LAST TIME THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN, AND IT'S BEEN HAPPENING MORE IN RECENT YEARS.

NOW, YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE'S A GOOD POINT TO BE MADE HERE THAT, YOU KNOW, POLICE PRESENCE, WHILE IT IS VERY WELL DOCUMENTED IT WILL REDUCE CRIME IN PUBLIC SPACES IS NOT ALWAYS GOING TO HAVE THAT KIND OF EFFECT IN THE MINDS OF SOMEONE NOT ENTIRELY THERE.

PEOPLE EXPERIENCING SEVERE MENTAL ILLNESS WILL NOT HAVE THE SAME CALCULUS OF A POLICE PRESENCE RATHER THAN A LOWER-LEVEL CRIMINAL SOMEBODY NO SUFFERING FROM MENTAL ILLNESS WILL HAVE.

THERE'S A LIMIT TO WHAT POLICE CAN DO.

WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM IS ONE OF THE MOST EFFECTIVE WE HAVE AT THE MOMENT INCAPACITATING PEOPLE WHO ARE A DANGER TO THEMSELVES AND OTHERS.

TALKED RESOURCES EARLIER.

NEW YORK CITY SPEND MORE ON MENTAL ILLNESS THAN PROBABLY ANY OTHER MAJOR CITY IN THE COUNTRY.

CLEARLY THAT SPENDING IS EITHER NOT GOING TO THE RIGHT PLACES OR NOT GOING TO THE RIGHT INITIATIVES.

ONE OF THE THINGS WE KNOW, THERE'S BEEN A VERY, VERY LARGE DECREASE IN RESOURCES AVAILABLE FOR IN-PATIENT SERVICES FOR KEEPING PEOPLE OFF THE STREET.

THOSE THINGS STARTED TO GET DISMANTLED IN THE 1970s.

THE ARGUMENT, IT WAS MORE COMPASSIONATE TO SPARE PEOPLE THE TERRIBLE EXPERIENCES THAT SOME OF THEM WERE HAVING IN MENTAL INSTITUTIONS.

I'M AFRAID WE THREW THE BABY OUT WITH THE BATH WATER IN THAT CASE.

WE'RE SEEING IT LESS COMPASSIONATE TO LEAVE THEM OUT ON THE STREET, LIKELY TO DO HARM TO SOMEONE ELSE OR THEMSELVES.

>> UNFORTUNATELY THE DISCUSSION ABOUT HOW THIS CITY TREATS AND ADDRESSES THE MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT BUT WE DON'T HAVE TIME FOR THAT.

I DO WANT TO TURN, THOUGH, TO THE OTHER ISSUE THAT SORT OF TIES INTO THIS, AND THAT WAS THE NEW MANHATTAN D.A.

AND HIS ASSERTION THAT HE'S NOT GOING TO PROSECUTE CERTAIN LOW-LEVEL CRIMES.

BEN, I WONDER IF YOU CAN SORT OF QUICKLY REITERATE WHAT IT WAS THAT HE INTENDED TO DO AND WHAT WAS THE BLOWBACK?

WHAT WAS THE REACTION?

>> WELL, THERE'S A LOT OF DETAILS TO THIS.

I'LL TRY TO GIVE A QUICK OVERVIEW, BUT FOLKS SHOULD OBVIOUSLY FIND IT IN WRITING ALL THE DETAILS IF THEY WANT.

BUT MANHATTAN DISTRICT ATTORNEY ALVIN BRAGG RAN FOR A PLATFORM OF SORT OF REALLY FOCUSING THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE ON VIOLENT CRIME AND THE MOST SERIOUS CRIMES AND THEN REALLY ADJUSTING THE APPROACH TO SORT OF EVERYTHING LOWER THAN THAT, AND HE ANNOUNCED HIS DAY ONE MEMO TO HIS PROSECUTORS OFFICE EXPLAINING SOME OF THE WAYS THEY WERE GOING TO CHANGE THEIR CHARGING PROTOCOLS, AND NOT PROSECUTING CERTAIN CRIMES.

SOME OF THOSE WERE CONTINUATIONS FROM MANHATTAN D.A.

CY VANCE WHO JUST LEFT OFFICES SOME HAPPENING IN OTHER BOROUGHS AND SOME FAIRLY SIGNIFICANT ADJUSTMENTS.

WITHOUT GOING INTO ALL SPISHGS OF TYPES OF CRIMES THAT DOECT OUR PRIOR DISCUSSION, A LOT OF WHAT D.A.

BRAGG IS TRYING TO DO IS SAYING, WE NEED TO INCREASE DIVERSION.

WE NEED TO INCREASE SERVICES, AND THAT WILL MAKE THE CITY SAFER WITHOUT THE INJUSTICES OF SORT OF JUST LOCKING A LOT OF PEOPLE AWAY.

SOME OF WHOM MAY BE ON THE POTENTIAL PATH TO COMMITTING MORE SERIOUS CRIMES.

SOME OF WHOM MAY BE SUFFERING FROM SEVERE MENTAL ILLESS, ET CETERA.

BUT WHAT BOTH OF THESE CONVERSATIONS REALLY BRING TOGETHER IS THE QUESTION OF, WHERE ARE RESOURCES DEVOTED?

AND HOW EFFECTIVELY ARE PROGRAMS IN GETTING PEOPLE THE SERVICES THEY NEED AND MAKING SURE THAT PEOPLE ARE NOT DANGEROUS TO THEMSELVES AND OTHERS?

AND WE OBVIOUSLY HAVE SEEN MAJOR GAPS IN THOSE PROGRAMS AND SERVICES THAT ALREADY EXIST, AND SO ONE OF THE BIGGEST QUESTIONS FOR D.A.

BRAGG GOING FORWARD IS, HOW DOES HE DEVOTE MORE RESOURCES TO THOSE SERVICES AND COORDINATE WITH CITY GOVERNMENT?

WITH STATE GOVERNMENT?

AND OTHER PARTNERS, TO ENSURE THAT THIS PLAN WORKS?

>> L. JOY, DO YOU SEE THIS AS PERHAPS A POSITIVE STEP IN READDRESSING THE WAY THE CITY GOES ABOUT CRIMINAL JUSTICE, OR IS THIS PERHAPS A MISSTEP ON THE PART OF D.A.

BRAGG?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S PART OF AN OVERALL STRATEGY IN TERMS OF, FOR ACTIVISTS LIKE MYSELF AND OTHERS TO HAD BEEN WORK ON THESE ISSUES FOR SOME TIME, AS WAS PREVIOUSLY MENTIONED, WHILE NEW YORK MAY BE SPENDING LOTS OF MONEY AS PERTAINS TO MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES, THERE IS A HUGE DISCONNECT OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE EXPERIENCING THIS DAILY.

THERE ARE FAMILIES EXPERIENCING THIS AND LOOKING AT SEEKING HELP, AND ARE IN THE STREETS OR EITHER IN FAMILY MEMBER'S HOMES AND THEM ACTUALLY BEING CONNECTED TO SERVICES AND GETTING HELP THEY NEED IN THE SERVICES THAT THEY NEED.

RIGHT?

SO THEN THAT BOILS OVER, AND ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE INTERCONNECTED.

RIGHT?

SO, YOU KNOW, CHARGING LOW-LEVEL CRIMES OR DETAINING PEOPLE CONNECTED TO THE POPULATION THAT CAN SWELL AS RIKERS, WHICH IS CONNECTED TO, YOU KNOW, THE THINGS THAT WE ARE EXPERIENCING OR SEEING AT RIKERS AND OTHER INSTITUTIONS ACROSS THE CITY, CONNECTED DIRECTLY TO THE POLICY AND POLITICAL PRESCRIPTIONS FROM THERE, WHICH IS DIRECTLY CONNECTED TO THE FEAR THAT IS THEN DISTRIBUTED TO THE CITY OF NEW YORK, YOU KNOW, IN MEDIA, PAPERS AND OTHERS.

RIGHT?

IT'S A CIRCULAR CONNECTION AND HAS TO BE AT SOME POINT THAT -- SOME POINT OR SOME COG IN THE WHEEL, YOU KNOW?

STOPS.

SAYS, HOW ARE WE GOING TO DO THIS DIFFERENTLY SO WE CAN STOP GOING AROUND AND AROUND?

I REALLY SEE DISTRICT ATTORNEYS NOT ONLY D.A.

BRAGG BUT DISTRICT ATTORNEYS ACROSS THE COUNTRY WHO ARE STARTING THAT MOVEMENT, WHO HAVE THIS HUGE POW AROUND CONTROL TO SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT WE WILL CHARGE WHAT WE WILL PROVIDE SERVICES OR RESOURCES TO, TO BE ONE OF THOSE COGS IN THE WHEEL THAT STOPS AND SAYS, HOW CAN WE DO THIS DIFFERENTLY TO MAKE A, CHANGE TO A BETTER OUTCOME.

>> YOU KNOW, MANUEL N, NOT JUST FROM THIS BUT PUBLIC SAFETY.

IS THIS THE FIRST STEP TO MAKING A MORE EQUITABLE SOCIETY OR AS SOME CRITICIZED D.A.

BRAGG A MISSTEP?

>> MOST CERTAINLY A MISSTEP BUT ONE THAT REFLECTS A GOOD FAITH EFFORT TO PURSUE EQUITY.

I THINK THE RESULTS ARE ACTUALLY GOING TO END UP BEING WORSE PRECISELY FOR THE REASONS REFORMS PURSUED AND ONE OF THE BIGGEST PROBLEMS.

WE TALK ABOUT FOR EXAMPLE, INEQUITY, RACIAL INEQUALITY THROUGHOUT VARIOUS ENFORCEMENT STATISTICS.

A HUGE FOCUS OF THE MOVEMENT AND IMPETUS FOR THE PRESSURE ON LOCAL DISTRICT ATTORNEYS TO NOT CHARGE CERTAIN OFFENSES AND NOT PURSUE LONGER SENTENCES'S ONE OF THE THINGS LEFT OUT OF THAT CONVERSATION, HOWEVER, UNEQUAL DISTRIBUTION OF VIOLENT CRIME.

IN THIS CITY MORE PRESENT, AS PRESENT AS IT IS IN ANY OTHER CITY.

YEAR AFTER YEAR, 95-PLUS PERCENT OF ALL SHOOTING VICTIMS ACROSS THE CITY ARE EITHER BLACK OR HISPANIC.

THE MOST PERSISTENT AND STARK RACIAL DISPARITIES IN RACIAL JUSTICE STATISTICS IS ONE THAT HAS TO INFORM OUR EFFORTS TO REFORM THE SYSTEM, AND REFORM FOR ITS OWN SAKE IS NOT A PARTICULARLY GOOD APPROACH.

SIMPLY JUST DOING THINGS DIFFERENTLY IS NOT A GOOD APPROACH.

SHOULD BE TIED TO RESULTS AND ONE OF THE THINGS YOU DON'T SEE IN A BRAGG EXAMPLE, ANYTHING TO VALUATE SUCCESS OR FAILURE.

NOTHING SAYS THE D.A.

OFFICE WILL SHARE DATA ON RECIDIVISM OR OFFENSES QUITTED MY PEOPLE WITH CRITICAL INJUSTICES.

THIS IS DRIVING FEAR.

ONE CONSISTENT IDEA MOTIVATES PROVISIONS, INCARCERATION FOR ITS OWN SAKE.

PROBLEM WITH THAT, THAT'S THE BEST MECHANISM WE HAVE TO INCAPACITATE PEOPLE WHO COMMIT SERIOUS CRIMES.

YOU SEE STORIES ABOUT SERIOUS CRIMES OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

PEOPLE WITH EXTENSIVE ARREST HISTORIES, ACTIVE CRIMINAL JUSTICE STATUS, ON PROBATION, ON PAROLE.

OUT WITH A PRIOR CASE.

THAT'S NOT SOMETHING WE ARE PREPARED TO TOLERATE FOR THE NEXT TEN YEARS.

SO I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT BRAGG HAS BEEN RECALCULATING ON.

>> OF COURSE.

WE HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE, OF COURSE, AND TAKE IT FROM PERHAPS THE LOCAL LEVEL IN NEW YORK CITY TO THE STATE LEVEL AND THEN WE KNOW THAT GOVERNOR HOCHUL IS SET TO DELIVER HER BUDGET ADDRESS.

ALREADY GIVEN HER STATE OF THE STATE.

WE'RE TAPING JUST BEFORE THAT HAPPENS, BUT BASED ON WHAT YOU HAVE SEEN AND HEARD COMING OUT OF HER OFFICE THUS FAR, WHERE DO YOU THINK SHE'S GOING TO TRY TO FOCUS WHERE THE MONEY SHOULD GO?

>> WELL, SOME OF THE BIGGEST AREAS THAT WE'RE WATCHING, AS SHE DELIVERED HER FIRST BUDGET, VERY MUCH SHAPE THE BUDGET ADOPTED, SUPPOSEDS TO BE BY APRIL 1 OF THE STARTING FISCAL YEAR.

COULD BE HER ONLY BUDGET IF SHE DOESN'T WIN THE ELECTION THIS YEAR BUT RIGHT NOW IN A FACHBERRED POSITION TO AT LEAST WIN THE PRIMARY, IF NOT THE GENERAL.

BIGGEST AREAS WE'RE LOOKING AT ARE, A., SPENDING OF PANDEMIC RELIEF MONEY.

HUGE:OF FEDERAL MONEY COME INTO THE STATE.

NOT A LOT ALLOCATED AND A BUDGET FOR ALLOCATING A LOT OF THAT PANDEMIC RELIEF MONEY.

THAT GOES IN A LOT OF DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS INCLUDING PUBLIC HEALTH, ALSO AREAS LIKE EDUCATION, AND EVEN TOWARDS JOB PROGRAMS, AND THOSE ARE SOME OF THE AREAS THAT WE'RE WATCHING MOST.

ALSO CHILD CARE.

THIS HAS BEEN ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT HAS BEEN BROUGHT TO THE FOREFRONT ALONG WITH EMPLOYMENT ISSUES, WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT ISSUES TIED RIGHT IN WITH THAT CHILD CARE POLICY.

SEEN A LOT OF WOMEN ESPECIALLY LEAVE THE WORKFORCE DURING THE PANDEMIC AS WE KNOW, AND GOVERNOR HOCHUL EVEN BEFORE BECOMING GOVERNOR WAS FOCUSED ON CHILD CARE POLICY.

SO THAT'S ONE OF THE ISSUES WE'RE WATCHING FOR AND ALSO INFRASTRUCTURE SPENDING.

ALWAYS A BIG ISSUE IN NEW YORK, AND ELSEWHERE.

EVEN WITHOUT, YOU KNOW, KNOWING WHAT SHE SAID AT THIS POINT.

WE CAN KNOW THAT SHE'S LOOKING TO MAKE SIGNIFICANT INVESTMENTS IN INFRASTRUCTURE IN THE STATE, AND THEN ALSO QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW MUCH WILL BE PUT ASIDE FOR THE POTENTIAL BUDGET SHORTFALLS OF YEARS TO COME, BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW HOW FULLY THE NEW YORK ECONOMY WILL REBOUND ANYTIME SOON.

>> OF COURSE.

WELL, THERE'S A LOT TO LOOK FORWARD TO IN THIS BUDGET ADDRESS, AND, THEN WE WILL LOOK TO YOU, BEN, FOR BREAKDOWN OF IT.

NOW I WANT TO PIVOT BACK TO THE CITY AND L. JOY, GET YOUR TAKE ON THIS POSSIBILITY OF CONSIDERING A REMOTE OPTION FOR NEW YORK CITY PUBLIC SCHOOL STUDENTS.

NOW, INITIALLY, WHEN MAYOR ADAMS, STILL GETTING ACCUSTOMED TO SAYING THAT, BUT WHEN HE FIRST TOOK THE OATH OF OFFICE HE WAS CLEAR THAT HE DOES NOT THINK THAT'S A GOOD IDEA.

THAT WE SHOULD ABSOLUTELY KEEP CITY SCHOOLS OPEN, AND CITED A LOT OF REASONS LIKE INEQUITY TO COMPUTERS, WI-FI, ET CETERA, JUST MENTAL HEALTH OF NEW YORK CITY KIDS.

SO THE FACT THAT NOW THERE SEEMS TO BE SOME MOVEMENT ON AN ISSUE THAT SEEMED FROM AT LEAST THE MAYOR'S PERSPECTIVE TO BE DONE, WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU ABOUT WHERE THINGS STAND?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I'VE COME TO THIS WITH AN EDUCATOR IN THE HOME.

MY HUSBAND IS A HIGH SCHOOL TEACHER, AND HIS RESPONSE ALONG WITH HIS COLLEAGUES AND OTHERS ARE VERY MIXED.

RIGHT?

WHILE AT THE SAME TIME HE HAS STUDENTS WHO ARE LIKE I CANNOT GO BACK TO REMOTE.

YOU KNOW?

AND THEY ARE DOING ALL THAT THEY CAN AND MAKING SURE THAT THEY ARE COMING TO SCHOOL, BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT A REMOTE OPTION.

I ALSO UNDERSTAND HAVING YOUNGER KIDS IN YOUR HOUSEHOLDS AS WELL THAT PEOPLE MAY WANT TO DECIDE TO KEEP THEIR KIDS HOME.

THEY CAN AFFORD IT.

THEY HAVE THE COVERAGE AND EVERYTHING TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT CAN HAPPEN.

AND THEY WANT AT LEAST THE OPTION.

BUT THE DIFFICULTY HERE, I THINK, EVERYONE THINKS THAT PERHAPS IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, MAKING A WHOLESALE DECISION, BUT ALSO THERE'S DEALING WITH THE TEACHERS' UNION AND NEGOTIATING THAT, BECAUSE IT'S A DIFFERENT SKILL TEACHING IN FRONT OF KIDS VISIBLY IN THE CLASSROOM THAN IT IS TEACHING REMOTE, AND BASED UPON DIFFERENT GRADES.

DO YOU HAVE THE STAFF AND THE RESOURCES TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT?

WHAT I WILL SAY THAT IS DISAPPOINTING IS THAT WE HAVE BEEN IN THIS PANDEMIC FOR SOME TIME, AND SO FOR THAT TO GO ON AS LONG AS IT DID FROM THE ADMINISTRATION AND NOW TO THE ADAMS ADMINISTRATION, IS PROBLEMATIC.

NOT ABLE TO COME UP WITH A SOLUTION FOR THIS TIME, BUT I DO UNDERSTAND THERE ARE A LOT OF DYNAMICS TO CONSIDER, AND FOR THOSE WHO CAN AFFORD, WHO CAN HAVE A PARENT OR A CAREGIVER AT HOME, THEY WANT THE OPTION.

SO CONTINUING TO PRESS TO HAVE THAT OPTION IS SOMETHING THAT I THINK THE ADMINISTRATION HAS TO RESPOND TO, BUT AT THE SAME TIME I DO AGREE FOR SOME STUDENTS, BECAUSE I, YOU KNOW, BEING A FOSTER PARENT AND HAVING KIDS THAT JUST LEARN BETTER PHYSICALLY IN THE CLASSROOM, HAVING THE CHILD CARE COVERAGE AS BEN TALKED ABOUT CHILD CARE IS A REAL CONCERN FOR A LOT OF PARENTS AS WELL.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, RAFAEL, SEEMS AS IF SCHOOL EDUCATION, THE SCHOOLS, IS A CRITICAL PIECE TO US MOVING SO-CALLED PAST THIS PANDEMIC.

THAT, THAT ABSOLUTELY, THAT PIECE, HAS TO BE SETTLED AND HAS TO BE DETERMINED WHICH WAY THINGS ARE GOING TO GO.

I'M WONDERING WHAT DO YOU SEE AS AT LEAST FROM A PUBLIC POLICY PERSPECTIVE, WHAT IS THE MOST CRITICAL THING THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED?

IS IT THE UNDERLYING ISSUES THAT THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF CRITICISM AROUND IN TERMS OF INEQUITY OR A CONSISTENCY FOR THE SAKE OF THE KIDS?

I THINK PRIORITIZE CONSISTENCY FOR SAKE OF THE KEDS CERTAINLY.

I ALSO HAVE AN EDUCATOR AT HOME.

MY WIFE A FORMER EDUCATION TEACHER AND NOW A PRINCIPAL IN A CHARTER SCHOOL IN THE CITY.

WITH SAW WITH THE PANDEMIC DOESN'T GET ENOUGH ATTENTION IS THE SEVERE LOSS OF LEARNING YEARS THAT TOOK PLACE OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS.

KIDS WHO WERE STUCK OUT OF THE CLASSROOM AND THEY JUST FELL BEHIND.

IN A WAY I DON'T THINK WE'RE PREPARED FOR.

I DON'T THINK WE'RE WELL-POSITIONED TO RORCHER FROM.

THE CITY AND STATE NEEDS TO FOCUS RESOURCES ON CLOSING THE GAP THAT GREW DURING THE PANDEMIC, AND I'M NOT SURE THAT REMOTE LEARNING IS GOING TO BE THE WAY TO DO THAT.

THE RICHNESS OF THE EDUCATIONAL EXPERIENCE GOES BEYOND WHAT'S JUST COMMUNICATED IN THE CLASSROOM SETTING BY THE TEACHER.

THERE ARE INTERPERSONAL EXPERIENCES, INTERPERSONAL INTERACTIONS THAT ARE REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT TO CHILDHOOD DEVELOPMENT.

LOSING OUT ON THOSE IS NOT SOMETHING THAT I THINK IS GREAT.

I UNDERSTAND SOME PEOPLE WANT THAT OPTION, AND I CERTAINLY AM IN FAVOR OF EDUCATIONAL PLUR PLURALITY.

ANOTHER ISSUE THAT UNDERLIES THIS.

WHAT KIND OF SCHOOL CHOICES CAN WE GIVE TO PARENTS, AND RESPECT THEIR WISHES WHILE AT THE SAME TIME MAKING SURE THAT THE CORE PROVISION OF EDUCATION THROUGH THE PUBLIC SYSTEM IS ADEQUATE, AND DOING THE JOB THAT THE PEOPLE ARE SPENDING TAX DOLLARS TO DO.

>> OF COURSE.

WELL, WE ARE -- OH, BEN.

SORRY.

WERE YOU GOING TO ADD SOMETHING?

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY QUICKLY, PART OF WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE IS MAYOR ADAMS BUMPING PRETTY QUICKLY UP AGAINST THE REALITY THAT A COUPLE HUNDRED THOUSAND KIDS ARE NOT GOING TO SCHOOL EVERY DAY.

THAT'S PART OF THE REASON THIS IS ALL SORT OF UNFOLDING WITH THE POSSIBILITY OF ASYNCHRONOUS REMOTE LEARNING AND TEACHERS PUTTING MORE ASSIGNMENTS ONLINE, SENDING HOME TO GET MORE LEARNING FOR KIDS SIMPLY NOT SENT TO SCHOOL AND WE BUMP UP AGAINST THE VERY UNCOMFORTABLE REALITIES OF SCHOOLING DURING A PANDEMIC WHERE VIRTUALLY EVERYONE AGREES IT'S BETTER FOR CHILDREN TO BE IN SCHOOL BUT THEN PEOPLE FOR VERY GOOD REASONS ARE AFRAID TO SEND THEIR CHILDREN TO SCHOOL, YET THERE AREN'T A LOT OF RESOURCES AVAILABLE TO THOSE FAMILIES AT THIS POINT, AND WE HAVE COMPULSORY EDUCATION IN THIS COUNTRY FOR SOME VERY GOOD REASONS, BUT NOBODY WANTS TO NOW BE IDENTIFYING THE PARENTS WHO ARE NOT SENDING THEIR PARENTS TO SCHOOL AND STARTING TO THREATEN THEM.

RIGHT?

YOU COME AGAINST A, A VERY DIFFICULT SET OF DECISIONS HERE WHERE, YOU KNOW, PERHAPS IT'S REQUIRING VACCINATION FOR CHILDREN TO COME BACK TO SCHOOL?

OR VERY DIFFICULT DECISIONS AROUND, YOU KNOW, A NUMBER OF THESE QUESTIONS.

MEANWHILE, TEACHERS DO NOT WANT TO LIVE STREAM THEIR TEACHING.

RIGHT?

THAT'S PART OF THE DISCUSSION HERE AS WELL IN TERMS OF REMOTE LEARNING.

THERE'S MANY LAYERS TO THIS THAT ARE VERY, VERY CHALLENGING DECISIONS AND QUESTIONS FOR THE NEW MAYOR, THE NEW CHANCELLOR AND FAMILIES, YOU KNOW, ACROSS THE CITY AS WELL AS SCHOOL PROFESSIONALS.

>> YOU KNOW, BECAUSE WE ARE COMING UP ON THE END OF OUR TIME TOGETHER, BUT WITH THAT IN MIND I WANT TO ASK, OKAY.

YOU'VE TALKED A LOT -- WE'VE HEARD A LOT FROM OFFICIALS ABOUT GETTING PAST THE PANDEMIC AND POSTPANDEMIC, WHEREAS OTHERS SAID WE MIGHT BE ENTERING INTO THE ENDEMIC TIMES WHERE COVID IS JUST WITH US AND WE HAVE TO LEARN TO NAVIGATE AROUND THIS.

SO THE FACT WE STILL SEEM TO BE JUGGLING, LIKE, WE'RE GOING TO DO THIS, BUT WE'RE GOING TO DO THAT.

DO THIS DO THAT, AT LEAST WHEN IT COMES TO SCHOOLS.

HOW MUCH CONCERN DOES THAT LEAVE YOU WITH IN TERMS OF ANY KIND OF REAL PLAN TO DEAL WITH SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO BE WITH US FOR A WHILE?

AND, BEN, I'LL TURN IT OVER TO YOU.

>> WELL, VERY QUICKLY I'D SAY THIS IS SOMETHING MAYOR ADAMS HAS SAID.

WE NEED TO REALLY START LEARNING TO LIVE WITH COVID MORE.

YES, SURE, BUT ALSO THIS LATEST VARIANT AND WAVE HAVE BEEN VERY TROUBLING AND ESPECIALLY DESTRUCTIVE, OF COURSE, TO UNVACCINATED INDIVIDUALS, AND THAT'S ONE OF THE BIGGEST QUESTION MARKS I HAVE FOR THE NEW ADMINISTRATION IS -- HOW IS THE ADAMS ADMINISTRATION GOING TO REALLY GET THE COVID VACCINATIONS NUMBERS UP TO A POINT ESPECIALLY IN CHILDREN BUT ALSO BOOSTERS FOR ADULTS WHO ARE ELIGIBLE AND SO FORTH, TO A POINT WHERE THE NEXT VARIANT THAT COMES, ASSUMING THERE IS ONE, IS NOT AT CHALLENGING TO DEAL WITH?

>> WELL, UNFORTUNATELY WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE.

TLO THESE ARE ALL INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT TOPICS WE WILL KEEP DISCUSSING HERE ON THE "METROFOCUS" ROUNDTABLE.

I'D LIKE TO THANK ALL OF MY GUESTS.

L. JOY WILLIAMS, BEN MAX AND, OF COURSE, OUR NEW GUEST, RAFAEL OF THE MANHATTAN INSTITUTE.

THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR JOINING US AND TAKING TIME TO GIVE US YOUR INSIGHT ON THESE INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT ISSUES.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, THE PETER G. PETERSON FUND.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION.

AND BY --