AMNA NAWAZ: Good evening.

I'm Amna Nawaz.

GEOFF BENNETT: And I'm Geoff Bennett.

On the "News Hour" tonight:# An appeals court all.. Trump administration's tariffs to# stay in place for now -- the legal## back-and-forth that's causing even# more uncertainty for businesses.

KEVIN O'LEARY, Founder, O'Leary Ventures: The# check and balance is working.

Democracy works,## you can say that.

But it's providing a# tremendous amount of volatility to markets.

AMNA NAWAZ: The United States# proposes a new deal to pause## the war in Gaza again and release the hostages.

GEOFF BENNETT: And we speak with the# head of the FDA about recent changes## to COVID vaccine recommendations# for children and pregnant women.

(BREAK) GEOFF BENNETT:## Welcome to the "News Hour."

President Trump's sweeping tariffs remain in place# to..

But the ultimate fate of many of those tariffs# is unclear after a series of court decisions.

AMNA NAWAZ: Two federal courts, including# a special Court of International Trade,## ruled against many of the president's# tariffs, saying they were illegal and that## the president did not have the specific# authority that he cited to impose them.

But those decisions are on hold after# a separate appellate court issued a## stay this afternoon.

That court told# the administration and a coalition of## states and businesses who sued that it# would hear arguments early next month.

Stephanie Sy begins with this report.

KAROLINE LEAVITT, White House# Press Secretary: Last night,## the Trump administration faced# anot.. STEPHANIE SY: Today, the Trump# administration is fighting back## after a federal court ruling that# could upend its tariff policy.

KAROLINE LEAVITT: America cannot function# if President Trump or any other president,## for that matter, has their sensitive diplomatic or# trade negotiations railroaded by activist judges.

STEPHANIE SY: Foreign leaders, on the# other hand, applauded the decision.

MARK CARNEY, Canadian Prime Minister: The# government welcomes yesterday's decision by## the U.S. Court of International Trade, which# is consistent with Canada's longstanding## position that the U.S. IEEPA tariffs# were unlawful, as well as unjustified.

HE YONGQIAN, Chinese Commerce Ministry# Spokesperson (through translator):## China urges the U.S. to heed the rational voices# of the international community and its domest.. stakeholders, and to completely eliminate the# unilateral imposition of additional tariffs.

STEPHANIE SY: Generally, the president has# imposed tariffs in three main categories,## 10 percent tariffs on almost every country,# higher tariffs for Canada, Mexico and China, and## industry-specific tariffs, including an additional# 25 percent rate on steel, aluminum and cars.

Were it not for the circuit court's stay today,## last night's ruling would have blocked the# first two, in addition to tariffs Trump## had threatened to issue on dozens of other# countries, the U.S. has trade deficits with.

DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States: Our# country and its taxpayers have been ripped off.

STEPHANIE SY: Trump bypassed Congress# and implemented them by executive order,## arguing that he has the power to do so under the## 1977 International Emergency# Economic Powers Act, or IEEPA.

He justified this by saying the trade deficit# and fentanyl crisis, which he blames on Mexico,## Canada and China, pose a national emergency.

But a# panel of judges on the U.S. Court of International## Trade appointed by Presidents Reagan, Obama# and Trump overruled the president last night,## writing the orders -- quote -- "exceed any# authority granted to the president by IEEPA."

It also says the orders on fentanyl don't deal# directly with the fight against drug trafficking,## but instead -- quote -- "aim to create# leverage to deal with those objectives."

National Economic Council Director# Kevin Hassett responded this morning.

KEVIN HASSETT, Director, National Economic# Council: The idea that the fentanyl crisis## in America is not an emergency is so# appalling to me that I'm sure that,## when we appeal, that this# decision will be overturned.

STEPHANIE SY: Today, the Circuit Court of Appeals# paused the Court of International Trade's ruling,## even while another federal# court ruled against the tariffs.

MARY LOVELY, Peterson Institute# for International Economics: This## certainly puts a bit of a snar.. STEPHANIE SY: Mary Lovely is a senior# fellow at the Peterson Institute for## International Economics.

She says# there are other ways the president## could still impose his tariffs# if the ruling stays in effect.

MARY LOVELY: This is an ongoing saga, and the# longer it goes, the more debilitating it is,## I think the more we risk turning# companies off from investing in the U.S. STEPHANIE SY: All this as revised# GDP numbers indicate the U.S. economy## shrank in the first quarter of 2025.

It# diminished at a 0.2 percent annual pace,## the first drop in three years, brought down by# a surge in imports, as U.S. companies hurried## to bring in foreign goods ahead of the new# tariffs, tariffs whose fate is now uncertain.

For the "PBS News Hour," I'm Stephanie Sy.

AMNA NAWAZ: For one view on# President Trump's trade wars,## we turn now to Kevin O'Leary.

He's# a businessman, celebrity investor,## and a regular member of the show "Shark# Tank," where he's known as Mr.

Wonderful.

Kevin O'Leary, welcome to the# "News Hour."

Thanks for joining us.

KEVIN O'LEARY, Founder, O'Leary# Ventures: Great to be here.

Thank you.

AMNA NAWAZ: So let's start with this legal## back-and-forth when it comes# to the president's tariffs.

Just today -- and things are changing# fast, I should note -- but, as we speak,## two federal courts have blocked# those tariffs from going into a## place.

An appeals court has granted the# president a temporary stay.

Is it clear## to you and other business leaders where# things stand right now on this front?

KEVIN O'LEARY: It shows that the executive# in this case -- and this happens in every## administration -- is pushing the boundaries in# terms of what they believe they can do without## getting any kind of feedback from the# courts.

And the courts are feeding them back.

And we're seeing Trump is pushing the# edge.

And if you're an investor like I am,## you don't really care about the politics.# You certainly don't make money on politics.## You make money on policy.

So you're# trying to figure out as you watch## these signals what the endgame is going# to be.

What is the policy going to be?

Trump is unique in the --# if you look back in history,## no administration has ever tried to# negotiate 60 deals simultaneously,## of which 18 matter.

They're 70 percent of the# trade.

And so it's going to take a little longer.

The courts are telling you through# these decisions that not so fast,## Baba Looey, as they say.

You got to go through# a process.

And that's exactly what's happening.

AMNA NAWAZ: Well, let me ask you about# the endgame and how you look at it here.

I'm sure you have heard this whole TACO# term that's come up.

It stands for,## Trump always chickens out, referring to# the markets tumbling after additional## tariff threats and then rebounding# sharply when he reverses course.

And the president got very angry when he# was asked about that term yesterday.

But,## by one count, Kevin, he's flip-flopped,# postponed or reversed course at least 21## times so far.

You know the man.

Is# this negotiation tactic or chaos?

KEVIN O'LEARY: You have got to learn# with Trump -- now this is his second## term -- that there is a lot of# noise and then there's a signal.

These are two different things.

If you# focus on the noise, you get distracted,## and 50 percent of the market and 50 percent# of the world has Trump derangement syndrome.## And I completely understand that.

I don't# bother with that.

That's a waste of time.

I focus on the signal.

The signal# he's sending out since the beginning,## since his first mandate since his first# term, is, he's not happy with the trade## situation worldwide vis-a-vis access to the# U.S. markets, and he wants to balance them.

Clearly, what Trump is doing here, with the# 17 countries, including the E.U., Britain,## India, Japan, Canada, Mexico, is a set of new# trade terms.

And I think we're going to get## kind of to a reciprocal 10 percent.

That's my# own assumption.

I'm investing that way.

And,## so far, the markets have rewarded# me for taking the long view.

China is a separate deal.

It's a completely# separate kettle of fish.

And I'm very glad## that they came to the table in Geneva a few# weeks ago.

And that's ongoing too.

With Trump,## whether you would like him or hate him, and# it's 50/50, focus on the signal, not the noise.

You will get nowhere with the# noise.

The signal is what matters.

AMNA NAWAZ: So let me ask you about# another policy you have been vocal on,## because we should note you do teach at# Harvard Business School.

And you have been## critical of the White House policy to block# international students from enrolling there.

Why is that?

What do you think the# president's missing on this front?

KEVIN O'LEARY: I'm also critical of the# stance that Harvard's taken.

And I have## to be careful.

I'm an executive# fellow.

I support -- let me just## disclose my association with Harvard.

I'm an# executive fellow there.

I have been for years.## I support the entrepreneurship program.

I# teach international students and domestic## students in the executive programs,# the MBA, and the undergrads as well.

And also to disclose, my son, who's an engineer,# was accepted at Harvard, and MIT, by the way,## this year, and chose Harvard to go to school# there.

I think what has to happen is the president## of Harvard, who, by the way, is Jewish, and he# doesn't have a single antisemitic bone in his## body -- and so -- and many of the professionals# I work with there are Jewish as well.

So I don't think it's an antisemitism issue# at Harvard.

Harvard cannot win the battle## by suing the president of the United States.# The president of Harvard has to get together## with the president of the United States and# work out whatever they're going to work out.

Now, regarding the students -- and you# need to understand something here that## I think I'm very passionate about.

Harvard,# the oldest educational institution in America,## curates a remarkable cohort every year.# They're agnostic to religion, to race,## to geography.

They find the very best of the very# best of the very best worldwide, and they put## them into an educational institution to advance,# learn, to advance science, to advance research.

And they are the very best at it worldwide, until# recently.

In terms of spending dollars right now,## number one in the world is in Beijing.# Number two is Harvard.

And so America## should understand we're in a race on research# because this is where the science comes from.

If we curate these people, and they come to# America and they check out, their background## checks have checked out, why don't we offer# them the ability to stay here and advance here,## to grow their businesses here?

Why would we# train 37 percent of the smartest people on## Earth at Harvard and then kick them out of the# country 24 months later?

How stupid is that?

Why don't we fix this now in this negotiation?# Create a program and offer it to every single## educational institution in America and say,# look, if you're willing to make the pass,## if you get actually invited, if you make# the cut and you're invited to Harvard or## to MIT or to Temple or to Notre Dame, I# don't care.

It doesn't matter which one.

And you're willing to go through the scrutiny# of background check, and we approve you,## we will give you the golden ticket to stay# here, because I teach these students.

They## don't hate America.

They want to stay here.# They're the smartest of the smartest people## on Earth I have ever worked with.

They're# young.

They're incredible individuals.

Why in the world would you want to kick them out## of here to go back to even a competing# economy that decades later they build## businesses to compete with us?

How# stupid is that?

Let's fix this now.

AMNA NAWAZ: Kevin O'Leary, thank# you so much for making the time## to join us tonight.

Please come back# again soon.

We appreciate your time.

KEVIN O'LEARY: Take care.

GEOFF BENNETT:## And we start the day's other# headlines with an in-person## meeting between President Trump and# Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell.

It was their first sit-down of Mr.# Trump's second term.

In a statement,## the Fed said the president initiated the meeting# and that Powell did not discuss his expectations## for monetary policy.

But Powell did say that# he and his colleagues will make decisions on## interest rates based solely on careful,# objective, and nonpolitical analysis.

At the White House today, Press# Secretary Karoline Leavitt confirmed## that characterization of the meeting# and added the president's perspective.

KAROLINE LEAVITT, White House Press Secretary:# That statement is correct.

However, the president## did say that he believes the Fed chair is# making a mistake by not lowering interest rates,## which is putting us at an economic disadvantage# to China and other countries.

And the president's## been very vocal about that both publicly# and now I can reveal privately as well.

GEOFF BENNETT: President Trump has argued there# is no inflation and has called Powell a fool for## not lowering rates.

While inflation is down, it# still remains above the Fed's 2 percent target.

The U.S. Supreme Court today backed a# multibillion-dollar oil railroad expansion in## Utah.

The justices reversed a lower court decision# the 88-mile project that would connect oil and gas## producers to a national rail network.

The case# centered on whether a federal agency had done## enough to consider the environmental impact# of the expansion as laid out by a 1970 law.

In the court's ruling, Justice Brett Kavanaugh# wrote: "The goal of the law is to inform agency## decision-making, not to paralyze it.

"# Environmental groups expressed alarm at## the decision, calling it disastrous.

The project# could still face legal and regulatory hurdles.

Forecasters say the first named storm of# the hurricane season is churning in the## Pacific.

Tropical Storm Alvin is located off the# Western coast of Mexico with sustained winds of## 40 miles an hour.

It's expected to weaken as# it approaches the Baja Peninsula this weekend.

Meantime, the Western U.S. is bracing for a# different kind of dangerous weather.

That's heat.## The first major heat wave of the season is due to# hit California and other Western states starting## tomorrow.

More than 15 million Americans are# already under heat warnings and advisories,## with temperatures expected to# top 100 degrees in some places.

America's envoy to Syria says the U.S.# plans to declare that country is no## longer a state sponsor of terrorism.# Tom Barrack made the comments on his## first visit to Damascus in his new role,# where he raised an American flag outside## the U.S. ambassador's residence.

The# U.S. Embassy has been closed since## 2012 after protests against then-President# Bashar al-Assad led to years of civil war.

Though the embassy itself remains closed,# Barrack's visit and the raising of the## flag are further signs of warming# relations between the U.S. and Syria.

Washington, D.C.'s Capital Jewish Museum# reopened today more than a week after## two Israeli Embassy employees were shot# and killed as they left an event there.

CHRIS WOLF, President, Capital# Jewish Museum: I ask you now## to take a moment of silence in their .. GEOFF BENNETT: Officials honored the memories# of Israeli citizen Yaron Lischinsky and American## Sarah Milgrim.

Their deaths are being# investigated as a hate crime.

The chair## of the museum's board said the institution# would not be deterred by such violence.

CHRIS WOLF: Today's reopening is# not simply a return to normal.

It## is an act of resilience.

It is# a declaration that we will not## allow hate to silence our voices or diminish# our commitment to building a better future.

GEOFF BENNETT: A 31-year-old suspect# faces two counts of first-degree murder,## among other charges.

According to court records,## he told police at the scene -- quote -- "I# did it for Palestine.

I did it for Gaza."

In the Swiss Alps, authorities suspended# the search today for a 64-year-old man## who went missing after a huge chunk# of a glacier crushed a town.

This## image shows the village of Blatten both# before the avalanche, seen on the left,## and after.

More than 300 people had already# evacuated before a piece of the Birch## Glacier broke off and caused a landslide,# destroying about 90 percent of the town.

Switzerland has the most# glaciers of any European country,## and scientists warn that global warming# is contributing to a thaw in recent years.

On Wall Street today, stocks ended a# bit higher as investors digested the## latest on tariffs.

The Dow Jones industrial# average added more than 100 points on the## day.

The Nasdaq rose about 75 points.

The# S&P 500 also closed in positive territory.

Still to come on the "News Hour": the latest# move and legal setbacks for President Trump's## immigration agenda; a provision in the# Republican budget bill puts millions## of people at risk of losing food stamp# benefits; and New York's Metropolitan## Museum of Art reimagines its collection# of art from the South and Central Pacific.

Today, Israel said it accepted a new# draft of a U.S. peace plan in Gaza,## but Hamas so far has not provided an official# reply.

The deal would pause the war for 60 days,## but not permanently end it, as Hamas is demanding.

Nick Schifrin is in New York# now and joins us with more.

So, Nick, what's in this proposal and# could it be accepted by both sides?

NICK SCHIFRIN: Well, Geoff, as you# said, Israel has accepted this proposal,## which would be a 60-day cease-fire of# the war in Gaza.

Hamas would release## five living hostages the first day# and five more living hostages after## the first week.

Hamas would also return# the bodies of 18 dead Israeli hostages.

In exchange, Israel would release# thousands of Palestinian detainees,## including more than 100 serving life# sentences.

But this would not, as you said,## end the war or require Israel to withdraw from# Gaza.

And those are the main sticking points.

A senior U.S. official tells me tonight, Geoff,# that Hamas continues to demand that Israel and## the U.S. guarantee that the war will not start# after these 60 days, because Israel restarted## the war after the last cease-fire, despite# Hamas' expectations that the war would end.

There's another draft, Geoff, that# would end the war and would release## all the hostages.

But this official# tells me that is not something Israel## supports and it's not the basis of the# draft that we're talking about today.

Finally, this draft would also# restart some U.N. food aid into Gaza,## but not as much as Hamas wants.

GEOFF BENNETT: Well, tell us more about that.# How important is that humanitarian clause?

NICK SCHIFRIN: Well, it's incredibly important.

So this clause would allow more U.N.# aid, but, at the same .. end the Gaza Humanitarian fund, the U.S. and# Israeli-backed initiative that, even today,## once again we saw scenes of chaos, of desperate# Palestinians trying to get boxes of food.

The U.N. humanitarian groups# accused the foundation of having## too few distribution sites and forcing# Palestinians into inhumane conditions.## The foundation says it's delivering aid to# families and preventing it from being stolen## by Hamas.

But the need is great.

An international# umbrella organization says half-a-million Gazans,## including many children, live# with catastrophic food insecurity.

Even President Trump has described# Palestinians as starving, and, this week,## longtime Israeli ally Germany# said these scenes cannot go on.## But so long as the war continues, Israel's# military vows to take over 75 percent of Gaza,## pushing Gazans into small areas in the south,# what Israel, Geoff, calls sterile zones.

GEOFF BENNETT: And how is Israel# responding to the cease-fire proposal?

NICK SCHIFRIN: As we have# discussed multiple times,## Geoff, Israeli society is split.

Prime# Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's coalition## has far right ministers who are threatening# to resign if the war does not continue.

And Netanyahu himself is vowing to# take over -- quote -- "all of Gaza"## to eliminate Hamas once and for all.# But many Israelis are demanding that## the government prioritize the hostages,# rather than the war.

You see there some## scuffled with police last night after they# broke into the ruling Likud headquarters.

And thousands of Israelis continue to fill# Tel Aviv's Hostage Square to listen to hostage## families argue that diplomacy is the only# way forward.

Take a listen to Iair Horn,## a former hostage and the brother of a current# hostage, as well as Ruby Chen.

Ruby Chen is the## father of American Itay Chen, who was killed on# October the 7th and whose body is still in Gaza.

IAIR HORN, Brother of Eitan Horn# (through translator): I turn to you,## Prime Minister of Israel Mr. Benjamin# Netany.. again.

End the war and bring back all 58 hostages.

RUBY CHEN, Father of Itay Chen: Our fight is# a global fight, meetings with leaders in the## United States, Germany, Qatar and others.

But# it is also a domestic fight, a fight against## the prime minister and a government that# has decided not to prioritize 250 hostages## kidnapped under his leadership.

We call on# President Trump to pressure Netanyahu and Hamas.

NICK SCHIFRIN: There are American and Israeli# officials, Geoff, who do believe and tell me## that if President Trump were to publicly pressure# Netanyahu to end the war, Netanyahu would agree.

But, for now, until Hamas agrees to# this draft we have been talking about## or Israel changes its policy and agrees# to end the war in full, the war goes on.

GEOFF BENNETT: Nick Schifrin in New York tonight.

Nick, thank you for that reporting.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Thank you.

ANNA NAWAZ: The Trump administration is# moving quickly to increase its deportation## numbers and further expand its# restrictions on immigration.

GEOFF BENNETT: But, in the past 24 hours,## multiple federal judges have# blocked President Trump's actions.

Our White House correspondent,# Laura Barron-Lopez, has more.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: From reinstating a legal# status program for some immigrants to ruling that## the administration's effort to deport a Columbia# University student is likely unconstitutional,## federal judges are continuing to rule# against the president on immigration matters.

Adding to that today, a Massachusetts federal# judge extended her order blocking the Trump## administration's efforts to bar Harvard from# enrolling foreign students.

The judge said## people are terrified and that she# wants to maintain the status quo.

Joining me now to discuss is Charles Kuck,## an Atlanta-based immigration attorney# and law professor at Emory University.

Charles, thank you so much for joining us.

I want to jump right in with that judge's# order.

It comes after Secretary of State## Marco Rubio said last night that the U.S.# will -- quote -- "aggressively revoke"## visas of Chinese students, including those# with ties to the Chinese Communist Party.

Here's State Department spokesperson# Tammy Bruce.

Take a listen.

TAMMY BRUCE, State Department# Spokesperson: The State Department## is determined to protect Americans'# right to free speech and to.. the malign influence and actions of the# Chinese Communist Party.

The bottom line,## we are using and will continue to use every tool# in our tool chest to make sure that we know who## it is who wants to come into this country# and if they should be allowed to come in.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: How far can the administration# go in revoking already approved visas?

CHARLES KUCK, Immigration Attorney: Well,# generally speaking, a visa can only be## revoked for a specific reason that makes a# person inadmissible to the United States.

We have seen the administration try to take this# to the very edge of the law by revoking people's## activity -- visas based upon speech issues.

What# we're seeing here is quite interesting.

It's as## if they're saying we have never vetted# the Chinese students before they came,## when, in reality, the Chinese visas have been# vetted very extensively for the last decade.

So it's really unusual at this point that# they want to revoke visas for people they## have already vetted.

It's surprising# and, frankly, a little disturbing.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: In other court cases# this week, a New Jersey judge ruled that ISIS## efforts to deport pro-Palestinian activists# Mahmoud Khalil are likely unconstitutional.## And a federal judge in Boston also# ruled that the administration wrongly## ended humanitarian parole for hundreds# of thousands of immigrants living in## the U.S. temporarily and ordered them# to resume those application processes.

What could these decisions mean for hundreds# of thousands of migrants seeking legal status?

CHARLES KUCK: Well, for the latter# part, it's really important for those## individuals who were paroled into the# United States who are now not subject## to immediate deportation by ICE.

I'm sure# that frustrates the Trump administration.

At the same time, the court case in regards# to Khalil is really, really important.

This## federal judge that ruled that that law is likely# unconstitutional actually reflects the same## decision made several decades ago by President# Trump's own sister when she was an appellate## court judge that said that that statute probably# violates the First Amendment of the Constitution.

This is good news for immigrants as they# continue to fight to remain in the United States,## but neither really provide a direct# path to legal residence for them.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Despite judges repeatedly# ruling against the president, the president's## actions to deport more people, White House Deputy# Chief of Staff Stephen Miller said last night that## the administration wants to triple the number of# arrests ICE agents are making on a daily basis.

Here's what he had to say.

STEPHEN MILLER, White House Deputy Chief of# Staff:.. we are looking to set a goal of a minimum of# 3,000 arrests for ICE every day, and President## Trump is going to keep pushing to get that number# up higher each and every single day, so we can get## all of the Biden illegals that were flooded into# our country for four years out of our country.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: The administration maintains# that it is acting within its authority.## Is it possible to arrest that many in a# day?

And what would it mean for due process?

CHARLES KUCK: It's physically# impossible for ICE to do that.## They simply don't have the money# or the agents or the bed space.

Tonight, the beds are full, the ICE has a lot of# them paid for, about 47,000.

I think what Miller## is referring to is the fact that there's a# bill pending in Congress to increase those## beds to 100,000 a night.

At the same time, every# one of these individuals is due a day in court.

And, at this point, Trump's been# losing immigration court judges,## not gaining them.

Court cases are currently# being said for new detainees for 2028.

So while## Miller talks a big game, the reality# is, they can't physically accomplish## this.

And even with more agents,# I simply never see this happening.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: On the question of# due process, the Trump administration## told a judge yesterday that they are# attempting to bring back a Guatemalan## man they improperly deported to Mexico.# What makes the case of this Guatemalan## man different than Kilmar Abrego Garcia,# who was wrongly deported to El Salvador?

CHARLES KUCK: There is no difference.# I don't know why one is happening and## one is not.

Both were deprived of the right# of having a day in court.

It seems, though,## that they have made a decision that Abrego is# not somebody they're going to actually obey,## whereas, the Guatemalan man, they are# going to obey that order from the court.

They're going to have a really interesting# time explaining to the judge in the Abrego## case why they're not doing anything.# It's very strange.

And just keep in mind,## administrations in the past have mistakenly# deported people and have always brought them## back according to court orders.# They can do this if they want to.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Well, that's related to# another question, because, notably, there's been## reporting about a number of children who either# have been deported or are facing deportation.

We know that includes a 2-year-old United# States citizen who has already been sent to## Brazil with her parents.

That's their country# of origin.

As well as a 4-year-old Mexican## national who is in this country currently# receiving lifesaving medical treatments and## is in danger of being deported because of her# parents.

Her parents' legal status was revoked.

That 2-year-old is not the only# U.S. citizen that's been deported,## but the administration is claiming that they are# doing this to keep families together.

How often,## how frequent is it that the# U.S. deports U.S. citizens?

CHARLES KUCK: It's highly unusual that# the United States would deport a U.S.## citizen.

It has clearly happened# in the past, by accident, usually.

But, for the most part, when they# have a recognized U.S. citizen,## they have longstanding provisions within the# ICE rules to first verify that somebody is## or is not a U.S. citizen before they deport# them.

What's happened here is the great rush## to simply meet numbers because a goal was set# and promises were made, without realizing the## law itself prohibits them from deporting# people at the levels they're asking at.

So, yes, we're going to see U.S. citizens# deported continuously under the Trump## administration until they are reined in by# the courts and begin following the rules.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Charles# Kuck, thank you for your time.

CHARLES KUCK: Great to be here.

Thank you.

GEOFF BENNETT:## Last night, we looked at the House Republican# plan for Medicaid in the Trump legislative agenda.

Tonight, we focus on another program facing# sweeping reform and cuts in that budget## bill.

That's SNAP, the Supplemental Nutrition# Assistance Program, once known as food stamps.## The anti-hunger program reaches more# than 41 million low-income Americans,## who receive an average of about $187 in food# benefits each month.

The Congressional Budget## Office projects proposed changes# would save billions of dollars,## but millions of people would no# longer be eligible for the program.

Our Lisa Desjardins is here.

So, Lisa, what cuts do House Republicans# want to make to this program?

LISA DESJARDINS: These would be the most sweeping## reductions in this program since the# Food Stamp Act was passed in 1964.

House Republicans, one, would make states pay# more for this, and, number two, implement more## requirements so eventually fewer people would# benefit.

First of all, those requirements are## work requirements, and they would apply to more# people.

They would now force states to pay a## share of this program.

And they would limit the# beneficiaries to U.S. citizens only.

All in all,## that would save just under $300 billion,# according to the Congressional Budget Office.

That is money that House Republicans would# use to pay for tax cuts in this bill.

GEOFF BENNETT: And what impact# might the work requirement have?

LISA DESJARDINS: It's significant.

Now, the focus here is on the most# .. and that is for able-bodied people right now# who don't have dependents.

It's 80 hours a## month.

That can be work or volunteering.# So let's look at how they're expanding it,## because the age is what has been# expanding in this requirement.

In 2022, this requirement was for people up to# age 49, but then it changed so that currently## it is required of people up to age 54.

House# Republicans would expand it again by more so## that everyone up to age 64 under this program# would be required to meet those 80 hours a month.

It also would change for people with# children.

Right now, if you have a child,## you are not required to meet this 80 hours# of work.

But the House plan would require## you to do it if you have a child who is# 7 years old or more.

Also mentioning,## if you're a married couple, only one person in# the marriage has to do the work requirement.

So,## if you're a single parent, you have to do# that, and you're also single parenting.

All right, so what does that mean overall, the# numbers?

Let's take a look.

The Congressional## Budget Office says these work requirements would# save about $100 billion, and that's largely## because more than three million people would# be out of the program as a result.

Most of them## are adults without children, and states would# not be able to create waivers to keep them in.

Now, even though these are adults that are# coming off of the program, CBO believes,## as an indirect effect, something like 400,000 kids## would lose school lunches as well,# though conservatives question that.

GEOFF BENNETT: So those are the numbers.

What's# the underlying debate that's fueling all of this?

LISA DESJARDINS: This is a very classic# ideological and intense academic debate as well.

For conservatives, what's central here is how to# get out of the cycle of poverty.

They see safety## net programs as an entry point into that cycle.# They want more self-sufficiency.

So we talked to## experts who believe that the work requirement# here is not too much of a burden for SNAP.

And, specifically, we spoke to Angela# Rachidi of the left -- the right-leaning AEI.

ANGELA RACHIDI, American Enterprise Institute:# The participation rate among eligible is close## to 90 percent.

In some states, it's even# 100 percent.

And so SNAP is available.

It's## robust.

I think a very small work requirement# that can be satisfied through things even like## volunteering.

I don't think that's an expectation# that's too high for much of this population.

LISA DESJARDINS: Now, they think that# this is something that's helpful,## getting people more to work.

But, on the left, they see the exact reverse# he.. are something that help people survive and# get strength so that they can get back to## work and get more self-sufficient.# They think that work requirements,## what they do is, they hurt people while they're# trying to get on their feet.

And they point out## that many people who are on SNAP are in# between jobs, looking for jobs right now.

We spoke to Lauren Bauer, who is with# the left-leaning Brookings Institution.

LAUREN BAUER, Brookings Institution: SNAP# work requirements punish the unemployed.## Searching for jobs, for work is not an# allowable use of your time when you're## being subject to SNAP work requirements.# And so what we end up doing is punishing## people who can't find a job within# three months.

During recessions,## that is the vast, vast majority of people# who become enrolled ON the program.

LISA DESJARDINS: It's also harder on# older Americans as well in the work force.

Now, there is not a lot of research that# really pins down what happens with these## work requirements.

There is economic theory# that there is a kind of demotivating factor## if you don't have a work requirement.

But on# the other hand, there's empirical evidence that## says people who are unemployed and get SNAP# benefits find better and longer-lasting jobs.

GEOFF BENNETT: And the other Republican goal here## is to push more responsibility# for this program to the states.

LISA DESJARDINS: That's right.

And this is a big deal.

It is a sea change.# What's happeni.. not pay anything for the benefits on SNAP.# But starting in 2028, under this proposal,## states would pay at least 25 percent.# And that would increase if the states## have a higher error rate.

So what# we're talking about right now is,## those are states with a higher error rates# currently is 25, about half of the country.

They would pay 25 percent of the benefits# in their state.

There's some time to work## out the error issues here.

But, just this# week, Wisconsin, which has a low error rate,## said that this would cost it hundreds of millions# of dollars and sent out a warning about that.

GEOFF BENNETT: And we should explain# what that means.

What's an error rate?

LISA DESJARDINS: An error rate means that you# have paid someone on SNAP too much or too little.

GEOFF BENNETT: Got it.

I want to ask you, with El.. the future of the DOGE austerity plan?

I know you# have reported on that extensively on the Hill.

LISA DESJARDINS: Well, some# things, like for example,## the reorganization of the# State Department and USAID,## are moving.

The State Department just# transmitted that plan to Congress today.

But other things like the cuts, which,# frankly, have sometimes been hard to track,## have not been congressionally approved# at all.

Some members would like to do## that.

But I don't think the votes# are there right now in the Senate.

There is one thing, cuts to the# Corporation for Public Broadcasting,## PBS and NPR.

We do expect a rescission# package perhaps.

I expect it, I'm told,## in Congress next week.

And# we will follow that closely.

GEOFF BENNETT: Lisa Desjardins,# our thanks to you, as always.

LISA DESJARDINS: You're welcome.

AMNA NAWAZ:## In a significant shift this week, Health# Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., joined## by FDA Commissioner Dr. Martin Makary and NIH# Director Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, announced that## COVID-19 vaccines will no longer be recommended# for healthy children and pregnant individuals.

That sparked concerns from some# public health officials and## medical professionals.

But Commissioner# Makary has defended the new guidelines.

He joins us now to discuss that# and other major health news.

Commissioner, welcome to the "News Hour."

DR. MARTY MAKARY, FDA Commissioner:# Good to be w.. AMNA NAWAZ: Thanks for being here.

So let's start with that vaccine announ.. an end run around CDC that doesn't currently# have a permanent director.

There's an advisory## council on vaccinations that usually weighs# in on these decisions.

They are scheduled to## meet in late June.

Why not wait for them to# meet before making any kind of announcement?

DR. MARTY MAKARY: So most of America has# said no to the COVID booster last year.

About## 85 percent of health care workers# refused the COVID booster last year.

And## very few children are getting the COVID booster.

For 88 percent of children, their parents said# no to the COVID booster.

So we can't have this## huge disconnect.

And the reality is people# want to either see more data or they have## some concerns.

And so we need to provide that# data for the public to make the case.

Right now,## when we came into office, there was this# absolute universal recommendation at the CDC.

And so the secretary consulted with a number# of physicians and decided that he wanted to## turn that decision back to a physician and the# patient.

And we would be more in line with Europe,## because, in the U.K., for example, they only# recommend the COVID booster if you're 75 years## of age and high-risk.

Or, in France,# it's 80 years of age and high-risk.

So we're really getting closer to the European## model.

And then the idea that you need a# COVID booster every year in perpetuity... DR. MARTY MAKARY: ... that is, a young baby born# today needs 80 shots in her average lifetime,## that was a theory, a theory that's not supported# with any randomized controlled trial data.

AMNA NAWAZ: So we know the uptake# has been low, as you mentioned,## but was there science and data behind this, or# was it just a decision to end the recommendation?

DR. MARTY MAKARY: Well, that's exactly the# problem, is that we don't have the data to## support that repeat vaccination booster strategy# every year in perpetuity.

If you get a hepatitis## A vaccine, it's one shot.

If you get a hepatitis# B or MMR, it's two, depending on the age group.

And so the idea that you need 80 shots in# your lifetime in the average lifespan of## a woman for the COVID booster is a theory# that's unsubstantiated.

Some have concerns.## there are still people who claim vaccine# injury.

I have heard of people who have## died from the vaccine.

It's rare, but# these are questions that the public has.

And so, at the FDA, we have done our job# to put out guidance in "The New England## Journal of Medicine" last week.

And that guidance# basically says, for young, healthy individuals,## we'd like to see -- this is a good time to check# in with a clinical trial to find whether or not## we should be pushing this, because the worst# thing you can do in public health is to put## out an absolute universal recommendation with such# urgency when the data really doesn't support it.

And the reality is, the data is mixed.

AMNA NAWAZ: I just want to show,## say too that the vaccine was proven to# be overwhelm.. DR. MARTY MAKARY: Four and five# years ago, four or five years ago.

(CROSSTALK) AMNA NAWAZ: Sure.. DR. MARTY MAKARY: In the first dose, yes.

AMNA NAWAZ: Ther.. momentum overseas, has now landed in the States.

Are you anticipating a summer uptick?# And if people choose to get the booster,## if they want to get it now, what does that# mean?

They have to pay for it out of pocket?

DR. MARTY MAKARY: Well, that's up to# every individual insurance company.

Again, vast majority of Americans have said no to# the COVID booster.

For those who want to get it,## they will be able to get it.

They're# still going to be vaccines available.

AMNA NAWAZ: But if it's not recommended,## it's likely not going to be# covered by insurance, correct?

DR. MARTY MAKARY: That's up to# insurance companies.

I mean,## I would love some cancer therapies to be# covered by certain insurance .. and they have chosen not to.

So I'm -- we're# going to turn this decision back to patients## and their doctors.

We're going to get# more in line with where the public is.

The sort of absolutism of you must get your COVID# shot every year, even if you're a young, healthy,## a 12-year-old girl, that disconnect, it's not# healthy to be that disconnected from the public.## And the reality is, we'd like to see a clinical# trial supporting that repeat booster strategy.

AMNA NAWAZ: I want to ask you about some# reporting just today from the news organization## NOTUS about that landmark MAHA report you put out# recently, the Make America Healthy Again report.

AMNA NAWAZ: They found that it cited a number# of sources that don't appear to exist at all,## at least one scientist's name included# on a paper she says she never wrote.

When we checked on the report later# today, it looked like it had been## updated.

Some of those false sources# and names were removed.

But what do## you want people to know about how that bad# information got in there in the first place?

DR. MARTY MAKARY: Well, there's# over 500 references and citations## in that report.

It's an incredible report.

Look, I have written medical journal# studies in the peer review literature and## some of the citations may not be perfect# in the way that they're described there.

AMNA NAWAZ: But do you include citations that# don't exist for sources that don't exist?

DR. MARTY MAKARY: I haven't# double-checked those citations,## but I can tell you that the content of that MAHA# Commission report is amazi.. because now we're talking about# microplastics and pesticides and## seed oils and the fact that 70 percent of# the food consumed by kids is ultra-processed.

I don't think our obesity, diabetes epidemic# in children is a willpower problem.

I don't## think it's their fault.

I think this is# something we are doing to kids.

And this## report changes the entire discussion in health,# because we can talk about Medicare payment and## states and site-neutral payments, which# is a reform that Mehmet Oz has put forth.

But the ultimate driver of our health care# costs in America, of our health care crisis## and the affordability crisis and the health# disparities that result is the worsening## health of the population.

And we have not been# talking about the health of the population.

It has been a 50-year failure of American# health care.

American medicine is amazing,## high, sophisticated operations in... AMNA NAWAZ: Yes.

DR. MARTY MAKARY: ..

But when it comes to the health of population,# it has been a 50-year failure.

And no one has## talked about root causes until this MAHA# Commission report.

It's unbelievable.

AMNA NAWAZ: And I know it is a priority for you# on this message, but to get back to the report... DR. MARTY MAKARY: Huge, yes.

AMNA NAWAZ: ... .. sources and scientists who didn't work on these# papers, are you worried people won't trust it?

DR. MARTY MAKARY: Every one of those citations## that I read and every line# of that report was solid.

Now... AMNA NAWAZ: Except for one of.. DR. MARTY MAKARY: I took a hard look at that# report, and I thought,.. game-changing discussion that# for the first time in history## is talking about the fact that 40 percent# of American kids have a chronic disease.

What that means for the future of American# health care is very concerning.

And we can't## keep blaming kids for this problem.# At the FDA, we're doing our part of## that report.

We have taken action to remove# all nine petroleum-based food dyes from the## food supply so that kids don't have these# petroleum-based chemicals in their system.

We're doing an inventory of all chemicals,# including the 1,000-plus chemicals banned in## Europe that appear in the U.S. food supply.

Why?# And so we're asking big questions on root causes## that we have never asked before.

We have got to# talk about school lunches, not just chemotherapy.

AMNA NAWAZ: Yes.

DR. MARTY MAKARY: We have got to talk about activity and chemicals and light exposure# in children, circadian rhythms.

All of## it's in the report.

We can't just keep# talking about having every kid on Ozempic.

We're not on a good path, and this agenda, I# think, is laid out beautifully in the MAHA report.

AMNA NAWAZ: Commissioner, I want# to know what you're not sharing how## those false sources got in there,# but you're asking people to tr.. the information in there regardless.

We# can talk about that more another time.

I do want to ask you, though, about the last# time we talked.

I asked you about the medication## abortion mifepristone.

You said you had no plans# to pull access for that.

You were waiting to see## more data coming in to review it to see if you# make a decision or not.

Since we last spoke, have## you seen any additional information that tells# you have to make a decision one way or the other?

DR. MARTY MAKARY: I still have the same# view I had when we had that discussion,## and that is I have got no preconceived# plans to take action that drug.

We are constantly looking at new data as# it comes in, and I think we should.

I mean,## let's say there's a drug-drug# interaction that pops up in big## data analyses.

That's something that we# need to look at and pay attention to.

AMNA NAWAZ: You have described# yourself as a data guy, though.

DR. MARTY MAKARY: I'm a science guy.

AMNA NAWAZ: Will you hold up the# doze.. on the medication abortion mifepristone# over new information that comes in now?

DR. MARTY MAKARY: We have to look at all# data.

You can't say there's a sacred cow## thing that makes us be blind to certain# data, and that's for the same reason we are## at the FDA are saying in "The New England# Journal of Medicine" that we want to see## a clinical trial to support the infinite# booster strategy for young healthy people.

AMNA NAWAZ: FDA Commissioner Dr.# Marty Makary, thank you for your time.

DR. MARTY MAKARY: Thanks, Amna.

AMNA NAWAZ: We appreciate you being here.

GEOFF BENNETT:## This weekend, New York's Metropolitan Museum# of Art will be opening its galleries of the## Arts of Oceania to the public for the first time# since 2021.

That's after a major renovation that## allowed curators to reimagine how to present art# from the vast region, which includes the more than## 10,000 Pacific islands in Melanesia, Polynesia and# Micronesia, as well as Australia and New Zealand.

Senior arts correspondent Jeffrey Brown got# a preview of the new galleries, which feature## some of the museum's largest and most storied# works, for our arts and culture series, Canvas.

JEFFREY BROWN: This is grand, imposing.

MAIA NUKU, Curator, The Metropolitan# Museum of Art: This is the Kwoma ceiling.

JEFFREY BROWN: Soaring above one of# the Met's new Galleries of Oceania,## one of the museum's most iconic artworks# from the Pacific.

Made by artists from the## Kwoma people of Northeast Papua New Guinea,# the installation represents the ceiling of a## men's ceremonial house, typically the largest# and most sacred building in a Kwoma village.

Each individual panel is infused with meaning,## painted with symbols associated with different# village clans, says curator Maia Nuku,## who spoke to us even as final touches# for the reopening were being completed.

MAIA NUKU: You have got a fabulous set# of crocodile eyes there in this gray## one with the yellow eyes in pairs coming down.

JEFFREY BROWN: And then you put it# together and it becomes the universe.

MAIA NUKU: From a Kwoma# perspective.

That's right, yes.

JEFFREY BROWN: Yes.

Originally commissioned in the early 1970s,# it's now been re.. wishes of the descendants of the original# artists to accurately reflect clan groupings.

MAIA NUKU: They had a lot of input into# how we reconfigured this new iteration.## It's critical for them to be able to# have a say in how they're represented.

JEFFREY BROWN: It's just one example# of how the museum has rethought and## recontextualized its installation of more# than 600 artworks from across the Pacific.

MAIA NUKU: I think go out and view it.

JEFFREY BROWN: Nuku, a member# of New Zealand's native Maori## community and the Met's first indigenous# curator from Oceania led the effort.

I use the word reimagining these# galleries.

What word do you use?

MAIA NUKU: Yes, recalibrating.

We are# reimagining the collections for the 21st century.

JEFFREY BROWN: It's the first time the Oceania# collection will have its own dedicated space, part## of a broader multiyear $70 million renovation of# the Met's Michael C. Rockefeller Wing.

Originally,## the wing, home to the museum's collections of art# from the ancient Americas, Africa, and Oceania,## presented the works together under what the Met# then called its department of primitive art.

Museum director Max Hollein: MAX HOLLEIN, CEO and Director, The# Metropolitan Museum of Art: I think that## we now have reached a po.. these works of art, but also a much deeper# understanding about how to present them,## how to show them to make a really# truly meaningful installation.

JEFFREY BROWN: The wing centers around# a collection of non-Western fine art## amassed by the philanthropist and statesman# Nelson Rockefeller in the 1950s and '60s.

It's named after his son Michael,# who disappeared on a collecting trip## to New Guinea in 1961.

His story is# featured in a video in the galleries,## alongside many of the works he collected,# like these intricately carved beast poles## made for funeral feasts by Asmat# artists in Southwest New Guinea.

MAIA NUKU: He was very invested in recording the# names of artists.

So for this Asmat collection,## we have the names of the artists, sculptures and# even some of the commissioning chiefs.

So really## they're not anonymous craftsmen from the past.# They are master carvers, they are master weavers,## and they have names and biographies and# they are really revered in the culture.

JEFFREY BROWN: And that's part of# the broader point being emphasized## now.

Much of this is 20th century modern art.

MAX HOLLEIN: I think people go sometimes through# these galleries and think that these are all works## from way back, as if it's antiquity.

This is the# art of the last century.

It has a deep impact## also on other cultures and traditions.

And that's# something that's coming really to the fore here.

JEFFREY BROWN: Oceanic art's influence on and## connection to Western art is emphasized# now through proximity across a hallway.

A big challenge in the reimagining, the# Met-specific works represent some 140## distinct cultures from a region covering# almost a third of the world's surface.

MAIA NUKU: Art from Oceania is really very# unfamiliar to many people.

And so what I## was really interested in doing with this new# re-display was to have people understand the## relationships, the line that's pulling# all of these cultures through over this## vast kind of sphere of space and time.

JEFFREY BROWN: Those relationships# stretch back at least 3,500 years,## when seafaring voyagers made their way from# modern-day Taiwan through Southeast Asia.## Then, after intermingling with# indigenous peoples in New Guinea,## they set out on vast journeys to settle# on islands across the Pacific Ocean.

Voyaging both literal and spiritual is a key theme# in the galleries, which include items like this## spirit canoe used by Asmat people to commemorate# the recently dead.

The common ancestry of## diverse island communities is highlighted through# repeating forms and motifs, like the frigate bird.

MAIA NUKU: The frigate bird is# really a piratical bird.

It's## really revered right across the Pacific.

It has a## huge wingspan and it can actually take# food out of the mouths of other birds.

JEFFREY BROWN: It's depicted here on# a pendant from the Solomon Islands and## again atop a mask from the Torres# Strait Islands.

Another key theme,## this is living contemporary art, now# represented with new acquisitions like## this work by Taloi Havini, who was# born on the island of Bougainville.

TALOI HAVINI, Artist: It was quite an# honor to be asked to contribute something## as a contemporary artist.

It sort of# shows that we're here, we're proud,## and we have artworks that deserve to# be seen in the global context of art.

JEFFREY BROWN: Havini's site-specific# series features designs from her tribe and## comments on relationships, including# those between museums and Oceania.

TALOI HAVINI: So, museums, although it# can have a colonial past and are often## criticized for holding on to these treasures,# they can also be sites for reconnection.

The designs that I have integrated into the# materiality of my work really speak to my## ancestors' designs about care and protection,# about the things that we hold precious to us.

JEFFREY BROWN: Those designs# are rendered on copper,## referencing the copper mine in her# region that led to a civil war.

TALOI HAVINI: This might not look traditional# because I have used the materiality that## speaks very much to appropriation and# extraction because I'm using copper,## and yet when I show my community the work, there's# no question that it comes from and is an artwork.

JEFFREY BROWN: Like Havini's work,# curator Maia Nuku hopes the new## galleries reflect living traditions# that can speak to all people today.

MAIA NUKU: The fact that we are just# one stitch in this genealogical fabric## that stretches over millennia, and the planet,## the land, the seas are not ours.

We're# stewards of them for this generation.

JEFFREY BROWN: For the "PBS# News Hour," I'm Jeffrey Brown## at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York.

AMNA NAWAZ: And that is the "News# Hour" for tonight.

I'm Amna Nawaz.

GEOFF BENNETT: And I'm Geoff Bennett.

For all of us here at the "PBS News..